Swine Flu Vaccine: Will we have a choice?

CatBallou wrote:Forced vaccinations for children using vaccines that have not been properly tested? I don't know about you, but I find this absolutely unacceptable.

See what happens when you don't read the footnotes?

No decision has been made yet on whether and how to vaccinate millions of Americans against the new flu strain that the World Health Organization last week formally dubbed a pandemic, meaning it now is circulating the globe unchecked.
But the U.S. is pouring money into development of a vaccine in anticipation of giving at least some people the shots. While swine flu for now doesn't seem any more lethal than the regular flu that strikes each winter, scientists fear it may morph into a more dangerous strain. Regardless, it can kill, and the WHO says about half of the world's more than 140 known deaths so far have been people who were previously young and healthy.
If that trend continues, "the target may be school-age children as a first priority" for vaccination, Sebelius said in an wide-ranging AP interview. "That's being watched carefully."
Those shots would be in addition to the regular winter-flu shots that will be given as usual — and health officials are furiously planning how to make people understand who will need which vaccine, or maybe both.
"We really just don't know, unfortunately, at this point," Sebelius said, noting that those decisions will be made in part based on how swine flu behaves in the Southern Hemisphere this summer, where flu season is just beginning.
Companies are on track to provide pilot doses for testing later this summer, she said. Those government-led studies will check if the vaccine seems to work, if one dose or two will be needed, and most important if it's safe. The last mass vaccination against a different swine flu, in the U.S. in 1976, was marred by reports of a paralyzing side effect — for a feared outbreak that never happened.
So the Food and Drug Administration will closely track vaccine safety, Sebelius said.

I don't know about anybody else, but it looks like they plan to do extensive testing before they inject the children. You may all calm down now.

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Unfortunately even vaccines that have been tested are not completely safe either. The question is whether having the vaccine itself is worth the risk or not.

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Agreed but to say that kids are going to be forced to be vaccinated without proper testing is irresponsible, sorry to be so harsh, but I have a school age child.

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thats how you liberals are... always taking what people say out of context...lol

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What do they mean by 'forced' vaccination? Does that mean they are gonna come and drag you from your house to get the child vaccinated? Or do you mean 'required' vaccination in order for the child to go to school. If we are talking about 'required' vaccination, we already have that. Some of those 'required' vaccinations aren't all guaranteed safe either. Also the agencies that do these testings haven't always been right on target about the 'safety' of any given product either. I think previously what I was trying to say..is we need to figure out if the benefits outweigh the risks of having the vaccination.

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grammatea4u wrote:What do they mean by 'forced' vaccination? Does that mean they are gonna come and drag you from your house to get the child vaccinated? Or do you mean 'required' vaccination in order for the child to go to school. If we are talking about 'required' vaccination, we already have that. Some of those 'required' vaccinations aren't all guaranteed safe either. Also the agencies that do these testings haven't always been right on target about the 'safety' of any given product either. I think previously what I was trying to say..is we need to figure out if the benefits outweigh the risks of having the vaccination.

I think that question was answered here:

"We really just don't know, unfortunately, at this point," Sebelius said, noting that those decisions will be made in part based on how swine flu behaves in the Southern Hemisphere this summer, where flu season is just beginning.

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Yeah Frank..I trust that they will be very careful before they go putting out a vaccine. You know either way they won't please everyone...If they delay the vaccine and the epidemic worsens and more young people die from it people will start yelling and complaining that the people weren't given the vaccine. Its just unfortunate with these matters ya just don't know what to do.

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Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

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FrankCNY wrote:Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

EXACTLY...HEY you have a PM..lol

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So you find something you admit to speculating about absolutely unacceptable?? Interesting.

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And if you read the footnotes I provided, no decision has been made, it couldn't be clearer.

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I don't know about anyone else but this whole thing is pretty suspect to me!

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And who's the arbiter of whether the vaccines have been properly tested? Seems to me they're taking plenty of precautions, so the point is moot. At this point no decision has even been made.

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Awww Please don't give me that crap about poking someone in the side, of course I find forced vaccinations that haven't been properly tested unacceptable, but there has to be some basis, and before such a discussion can proceed all the facts have to be provided, I merely pointed out that a lot of precautions are going to be taken before a final decision has been made. And a decision has not been made yet. But if you want to proceed with a discussion by providing only one side of the story, knock yourself out!!

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Hey, like I said, knock yourself out, but if I were to make an informed decision, I would want to know the information I provided, since you seem to think that wasn't necessary, or a poke on the side, as you put it, go right ahead, speculate all you want.

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At least the link you provided had sense enough to include footnotes.

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The fact that they can do it doesn't mean that they're going to do it, and before speculating on that it would be nice to know all the facts that would go into the decision. If you don't think the passage I provided is pertinent, then there's not much more I can say, enjoy your conversation. Good Night.

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I think Ron Paul rather sums it up better than I could:

Ron Paul about the Swine Flu People die from the Vaccines not from The Flu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJiTStZtrlE

Step back and think!
p.s. I have never had a flu shot in my life!

Edited on July 3, 2009 at 6:20 PM Permalink

State Emergency Medical Powers Acts and Federal legislation, including the Patriot Acts I, II and III, BARDA and others provide for mandatory vaccination or drugging.

No exemptions (religious or otherwise) are provided. Those who refuse will be classified as felons at the State level, subject to immedate incarceration and quarantine of indefinite length in jails or other facilities reserved for such 'vaccine refusers.'"

Those who refuse at the Federal level will be subject to immediate incarceration and quarantine of indefinite length, probably in FEMA camps set up across the US.

http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=27275

Big question mark on my end!

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This video presents provocative thoughts regarding two issues:

1- Mandatory vaccinations for adults and pressures put on parents to vaccinate their children. The dramatic increase in autism parallel to the indiscriminate increase of vaccinations, raises serious ethical issues that the governments of the world and the United Nations need to address. Children and adults are not guinea pigs.
2- The culture of FEAR in the profession of psychotherapy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAL1UE-q7GM

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Trust the government, you know they have your welfare at the forefront, you know they didn't mean to kill or paralyze anyone in the swine flu of '76. Oh and lets not forgot our good friend Baxter International who is in full production of 'tested' vaccine as I type this, so don't worry they've done it for you.

http://www.pharmabiz.com/article/detnews.asp?articleid=50249

This 'fine' co. surely didn't mean to create a more deadly virus by doing what they recently did and the killing of innocent ferrets.

'The company that released contaminated flu virus material from a plant in Austria confirmed Friday that the experimental product contained live H5N1 avian flu viruses.

And an official of the World Health Organization’s European operation said the body is closely monitoring the investigation into the events that took place at Baxter International’s research facility in Orth-Donau, Austria.'

'The contamination incident, which is being investigated by the four European countries, came to light when the subcontractor in the Czech Republic inoculated ferrets with the product and they died. Ferrets shouldn’t die from exposure to human H3N2 flu viruses.

Public health authorities concerned about what has been described as a “serious error” on Baxter’s part have assumed the death of the ferrets meant the H5N1 virus in the product was live. But the company, Baxter International Inc., has been parsimonious about the amount of information it has released about the event.'

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

PLEASE whatever you do don't think that Baxter was trying or has created a super virus:

'The fact that Baxter mixed the deadly H5N1 virus with a mix of H3N2 seasonal flu viruses is the smoking gun. The H5N1 virus on its own has killed hundreds of people, but it is less airborne and more restricted in the ease with which it can spread. However, when combined with seasonal flu viruses, which as everyone knows are super-airborne and easily spread, the effect is a potent, super-airborne, super deadly biological weapon.'

http://www.infowars.com/baxter-to-develop-swine-flu-vaccine-despite-bird-flu-scandal/

YES my fellow citizens we can trust Baxter International to stick us with needles of 'tested' vaccines. And this is all that is needed, a pandemic coupled with forced lawful inoculations or go to jail or quarantine in a cool FEMA camp with a coffin ready for you, oh and in case you don't think FEMA has thousands of coffins ready, go to YouTube and you can see videos of them stacked to the hilt. Yes my fellow Americans lots to be thankful for here.

NOTE: We are screwed.

Edited on July 3, 2009 at 10:07 PM Permalink

hoooo waaaaa cookie for Ronnie!

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LoL Dianna, you deserve something to, been lurking your posts, great info, keep it coming. :)

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ronnie67 wrote:LoL Dianna, you deserve something to, been lurking your posts, great info, keep it coming. :)

fank ewe darlin...:o)

Just trying to get it out there...let ppl form their own opinion on same....weeeeeeeeeee

Edited on July 3, 2009 at 10:04 PM Permalink

Yvw, like the sheep, lol, exactly, that's all you can do, many will not choose to check out these stories sadly. But it's nice to see info is being shared here on SS, stuff you won't find on the evening news. I hope you have a great Fourth of July! :)

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ronnie67 wrote:Yvw, like the sheep, lol, exactly, that's all you can do, many will not choose to check out these stories sadly. But it's nice to see info is being shared here on SS, stuff you won't find on the evening news. I hope you have a great Fourth of July! :)

Innit it cute though? I think so....it's an ewe...hee
Nope..won't find this stuff on the news...gee...I wonder why? :::evil grin:::
Happy fourth to you as well!!!! :o)

Edited on July 3, 2009 at 10:38 PM Permalink

Injunction against forced vaccinations

http://dprogram.net/2009/06/29/injunction-against-forced-vaccinations/

A. The Model State Emergency Health Powers Act, the NATIONAL SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/NSPD 51 and HOMELAND SECURITY PRESIDENTIAL DIRECTIVE/HSPD-20 and other laws.

1. The Model State Emergency Health Powers Act adopted in 38 States makes it a misdemeanor to a felony to refuse to take a vaccine mandated by the federal government and/or other affiliated bodies if the government officially declares a pandemic. Law enforcement officers are allowed to use deadly force against felony suspects.

For the specific versions of that Act enacted in each individual state.
2. The “Model State Emergency Heath Powers Act” allows the Government to seize and/or quarantine a town and all the people within it.
3. Once a town is quarantined, the government is allowed to seize all property and seize the rights of the people to resist government i.e. confiscating all civilian owned firearms.
www.publicealthlaw.net/MSEHPA…nce.pdf
(Model State Emergency Health Powers Act)
www.pandemicflu.gov/plan/sta…lans.html

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pOaz0Bt4Gk

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I have never had the Flu... I have never had a Flu shot..

But the swine flu when it was first announced .. Did say this flu was not like the flu's we are usually affected by..

Where normal flu strains affect the very young and very old or people with weak lungs to begin with.

The swine flu seemed to be more dangerous to teens..

So with that being said.. Why the need for pre school aged kids to have this flu shot?

Someone at Bob's office just last week was out with the Swine flu.. I would have asked for a Dr.s note if it was me LOL She is not a teen.. And therefore I would be suspicious of her claim..

According to this video I am safe or as she said immune to this strain of flu??

I don't buy anything anyone says about this flu strain. Is anyone going to really tell the truth when this is really about pharmaceutical companies cashing in? I doubt it... I still would not take the vaccine..

I found this video about just that ..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-FFobqCZzs

Do not take this vaccine!!

Edited on July 5, 2009 at 3:29 PM Permalink

CatBallou wrote:Forced vaccinations for children using vaccines that have not been properly tested? I don't know about you, but I find this absolutely unacceptable.

From the National Vaccine Information Center at
http://www.nvic.org/

"The summer will be over before we know it and it will be time for the school year to begin. This fall, many parents are wondering what will happen to their children when they enter the schools. Some public health doctors want to turn schools into vaccination clinics where children will be the first to be injected with experimental swine flu vaccines"

Story and video commentary at this address:

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/June-2009/Swine-Flu-Vaccine--Will-We-Have-A-Choice--by-Barba.aspx

I've been aware of this for a very long time now. Once Americans wake up and discover that we're living under socialism, there won't be any other alternative than to revolt.

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Journalist Files Charges against WHO and UN for Bioterrorism and Intent to Commit Mass Murder

http://www.naturalnews.com/026503_pandemic_swine_flu_bioterrorism.html

Burgermeister's dossier reveals that the release of the virus was to be an essential step for triggering a pandemic that would allow the WHO to declare a Level 6 Pandemic. She lists the laws and decrees that would allow the UN and WHO to take over the United States in the event of pandemic. In addition, legislation requiring compliance with mandatory vaccinations would be put into force in the U.S. under conditions of pandemic declaration.

She charges that the entire "swine flu" pandemic business is premised on a massive lie that there is no natural virus out there that poses a threat to the population. She presents evidence leading to the belief that the bird flu and swine flu viruses have, in fact, been bioengineered in laboratories using funding supplied by the WHO and other government agencies, among others. This "swine flu" is a hybrid of part swine flu, part human flu and part bird flu, something that can only come from laboratories according to many experts.

WHO's claim that this "swine flu" is spreading and a pandemic must be declared ignores the fundamental causes. The viruses that were released were created and released with the help of WHO, and WHO is overwhelmingly responsible for the pandemic in the first place. In addition, the symptoms of the supposed "swine flu" are indistinguishable from regular flu or from the common cold. The "swine flu" does not cause death anymore often than the regular flu causes death.

Burgermeister notes that the figures for deaths reported for the "swine flu" are inconsistent and there is no clarity as to how the number of "deaths" has been documented.

There is no pandemic potential unless mass vaccinations are carried out to weaponize the flu under the guise of protecting the population. There are reasonable grounds for believing that the mandatory vaccines will be purposely contaminated with diseases that are specifically designed to cause death.

Reference is made to a licensed Novartis bird flu vaccine that killed 21 homeless people in Poland in the summer of 2008 and had as its "primary outcome measure" an "adverse events rate", thereby meeting the U.S. government's own definition of a bioweapon (a biological agent designed to cause an adverse events rate, i.e death or injury) with a delivery system (injection).

She alleges that the same complex of international pharmaceutical companies and international government agencies that have developed and released pandemic material have positioned themselves to profit from triggering the pandemic with contracts to supply vaccines. Media controlled by the group that is engineering the "swine flu" agenda is spreading misinformation to lull the people of the U.S. into taking the dangerous vaccine.

The people of the U.S. will suffer substantial and irreparable harm and injury if they are forced to take this unproven vaccine without their consent in accordance with the Model State Emergency Health Powers Act, National Emergency Act, National Security Presidential Directive/NSPD 51, Homeland Security Presidential Directive/HSPD-20, and the International Partnership on Avian and Pandemic Influenza.

In the U.S. since 2008, Burgermeister charges that those named in her allegations have implemented new and/or accelerated the implementation of laws and regulations designed to strip the citizens of the U.S. of their lawful constitutional rights to refuse an injection. These people have created or allowed provisions to remain in place that make it a criminal act to refuse to take an injection against pandemic viruses. They have imposed other excessive and cruel penalties such as imprisonment and/or quarantine in FEMA camps while barring the citizens of the U.S. from claiming compensation from injury or death from the forced injections. This is in violation of the laws governing federal corruption and the abuse of office as well as of the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Through these actions, the named defendants have laid the groundwork for mass genocide.

Using the "swine flu" as a pretext, the defendants have preplanned the mass murder of the U.S. population by means of forced vaccination. They have installed an extensive network of FEMA concentration camps and identified mass grave sites, and they have been involved in devising and implementing a scheme to hand power over the U.S. to an international crime syndicate that uses the UN and WHO as a front for illegal racketeering influenced organized crime activities, in violation of the laws that govern treason.

She further charges that the complex of pharmaceutical companies consisting of Baxter, Novartis and Sanofi Aventis are part of a foreign-based dual purpose bioweapons program, financed by this international criminal syndicate and designed to implement mass murder to reduce the world's population by more than 5 billion people in the next ten years. Their plan is to spread terror to justify forcing people to give up their rights, and to force mass quarantine in FEMA camps. The houses, companies and farms and lands of those who are killed will be up for grabs by this syndicate.

By eliminating the population of North America, the international elite gain access to the region's natural resources such as water and undeveloped oil lands. And by eliminating the U.S. and its democratic constitution by subsuming it under a North American Union, the international crime group will have total control over North America.

part one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9nPg7oVHNM&feature=related

part two
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjvyZtayRC0&feature=related

part three
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBPq0fHY86Q&feature=related

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Jane Burgermeister is a dual Irish/Austrian who has written for Nature, the British Medical Journal, and American Prospect. She is the European Correspondent of the Renewable Energy World website. She has written extensively about climate change, biotechnology, and the ecology.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eCWxSP0VsA&feature=related

http://www.cleanairandwater.net
Charges Filed Against WHO & UN, and President USA

Jane Burgermeister an Austrian investigative journalist has recently filed criminal charges with the FBI against the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations (UN),for Bioterrorism and Intent to Commit Mass Murder (a breach of their own Bioweapons mass destruction ACT )
by Barbara Minton, Natural News.com

(NaturalNews) As the anticipated July release date for Baxter's A/H1N1 flu pandemic vaccine approaches,- (We expect FEMA to try and take over Australia on 27th July and cause mandatory vaccinations, and lock down of transport, and business.

Jane Burgermeister an Austrian investigative journalist is warning the world that the greatest crime in the history of humanity is underway. on the 10th June she filed criminal charges with the FBI against the World Health Organization (WHO), the United Nations (UN), and the defendants, Barack Obama, President of the U.S, David Nabarro, UN System Coordinator for Influenza, Margaret Chan, Director-General of WHO, Kathleen Sibelius, Secretary of Department of Health and Human Services, Janet Napolitano, Secretary of Department of Homeland Security, David de Rotschild, banker, David Rockefeller, banker, George Soros, banker, Werner Faymann, Chancellor of Austria, and Alois Stoger, Austrian Health Minister,
and several of the highest ranking government and corporate officials concerning bioterrorism and attempts to commit mass murder. (google the listed names + bioweapons)

She has also prepared an injunction against forced vaccination which is being filed in America. These actions follow her charges filed in April against Baxter AG and Avir Green Hills Biotechnology of Austria for producing contaminated bird flu vaccine, alleging this was a deliberate act to cause and profit from a pandemic.

Summary of claims and allegations filed with FBI in Austria on June 10, 2009

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I'll put my trust in the opinions of teams of well qualified medical experts regarding who should be 'forced' (or not) to have a vaccine, thus preventing it's spread to others.

My next door neighbor, the aircraft structural mechanic, is a swell guy and all, but I would not trust his 'expert' medical opinion past the boundaries of his own yard. :-)

Edited on July 6, 2009 at 12:15 PM Permalink

Yeah I love how they dumb down Americans!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UKW8TnynuU&feature=related

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in other words the G is fully of chit!

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CatBallou wrote:I keep thinking about the 1976 rush to vaccinate for Swine Flu. Guillain-Barré Syndrome was the unexpected result for many. I think I'll take my chances with the flu.

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Interesting, I just watched an episode of Law & Order SVU about a baby that was thought to be murdered but she actually died of measles, caught from an unvaccinated 4 year old. The team arrested the mother of the unvaccinated child and charged her with murder of the baby who died of measles. Really made me think...babies who are too young to be vaccinated against communicable diseases...would really peeve me off if some parent "didn't believe in vaccines" and their child had measles and they took them to the park and my baby caught it from them and died. Measles or any disease that there's a vaccine for and that can be prevented. Your little kid catches it and before you know they have an illnesses they are spreading it around everyone. NOT very responsible. Think about it.

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Sum_Southern_Sugar wrote:I'll put my trust in the opinions of teams of well qualified medical experts regarding who should be 'forced' (or not) to have a vaccine, thus preventing it's spread to others.

My next door neighbor, the aircraft structural mechanic, is a swell guy and all, but I would not trust his 'expert' medical opinion past the boundaries of his own yard. :-)

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Ron Paul is an MD....and very credible...I would be inclined to listen to him. Good video above should you have the inclination to watch it.

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