Seems Our President Doesn't Know What "We" consider ourselves

President Barack Obama said in Turkey : "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."

Oh, really? Thats what WE consider ourselves? Wait a minute.....he's trying to say that WE do not consider ourselves basically a religious nation, but consider ourselves bound by ideals and a set of values, but not religion? Wrong again Mr. President. Maybe you should take the time to read the State Constitions where WE THE PEOPLE DO CONSIDER ourselves as so, and speak for yourself....or maybe he had a frog in his pocket when he used the word "WE"

I bet the ACLU sure wishes they could take the reference to the Almighty God (which, the reference at that time was to the Judeo Christian "Almighty God".

> Alabama 1901, Preamble
We the people of the State of Alabama , invoking the favor and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish the following Constitution..
> Alaska 1956, Preamble We, the people of Alaska , grateful to God and to those who founded our nation and pioneered this great land.
> Arizona 1911, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arizona , grateful to Almighty God for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution...
> Arkansas 1874, Preamble We, the people of the State of Arkansas , grateful to Almighty God for the privilege of choosing our own form of government...
> California 1879, Preamble We, the People of the State of California , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom...
> Colorado 1876, Preamble We, the people of Colorado , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of Universe...(Wonder who they are referencing that to?)
> Connecticut 1818, Preamble. The People of Connecticut, acknowledging with gratitude the good Providence of God in permitting them to enjoy.
> Delaware 1897, Preamble Through Divine Goodness all men have, by nature, the rights of worshipping and serving their Creator according to the dictates of their consciences...
> Florida 1885, Preamble We, the people of the State of Florida , grateful to Almighty God for our constitutional liberty, establish this Constitution...
> Georgia 1777, Preamble We, the people of Georgia , relying upon protection and guidance of Almighty God, do ordain and establish this Constitution...
> Hawaii 1959, Preamble We , the people of Hawaii , Grateful for Divine Guidance .... Establish this Constitution.
> Idaho 1889, Preamble We, the people of the State of Idaho , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings..
> Illinois 1870, Preamble We, the people of the State of Illinois, grateful to Almighty God for the civil , political and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
> Indiana 1851, Preamble We, the People of the State of Indiana , grateful to Almighty God for the free exercise of the right to choose our form of government.
> Iowa 1857, Preamble We, the People of the St ate of Iowa , grateful to the Supreme Being for the blessings hitherto enjoyed, and feeling our dependence on Him for a continuation of these blessings, establish this Constitution.
> Kansas 1859, Preamble We, the people of Kansas , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious privileges establish this Constitution.
> Kentucky 1891, Preamble... We, the people of the Commonwealth are grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties..
> Louisiana 1921, Preamble We, the people of the State of Louisiana , grateful to Almighty God for the civil, political and religious liberties we enjoy.
> Maine 1820, Preamble We the People of Maine acknowledging with grateful hearts the goodness of the Sovereign Ruler of the Universe in affording us an opportunity .. And imploring His aid and direction.
> Maryland 1776, Preamble We, the people of the state of Maryland , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty...
> Massachusetts 1780, Preamble We...the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging with grateful hearts, the goodness of the Great Legislator of the Universe In the course of His Providence, an opportunity and devoutly imploring His direction
> Michigan 1908, Preamble.. We, the people of the State of Michigan , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of freedom, establish this Constitution.
> Minnesota, 1857, Preamble We, the people of the State of Minnesota, grateful to God for our civil and religious liberty, and desiring to perpetuate its blessings:
> Mississippi 1890, Preamble We, the people of Mississippi in convention assembled, grateful to Almighty God, and invoking His blessing on our work.

> Missouri 1845, Preamble We, the people of Missouri , with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe, and grateful for His goodness . Establish this Constitution...
> Montana 1889, Preamble. We, the people of Montana , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty establish this Constitution ..
> Nebraska 1875, Preamble We, the people, grateful to Almighty God for our freedom . Establish this Constitution.
> Nevada 1864, Preamble We the people of the State of Nevada , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, establish this Constitution...
> New Hampshire 1792, Part I. Art. I. Sec. V Every individual has a natural and unalienable right to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience.
> New Jersey 1844, Preamble We, the people of the State of New Jersey, grateful to Almighty God for civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing on our endeavors.
> New Mexico 1911, Preamble We, the People of New Mexico, grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of liberty..
> New York 1846, Preamble We, the people of the State of New York , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure its blessings.
> North Carolina 1868, Preamble We the people of the State of North Carolina, grateful to Almighty God, the Sovereign Ruler of Nations, for our civil, political, and religious liberties, and acknowledging our dependence upon Him for the continuance of those...
> North Dakota 1889, Preamble We , the people of North Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, do ordain..
> Ohio 1852, Preamble We the people of the state of Ohio , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, to secure its blessings and to promote our common.
> Oklahoma 1907, Preamble Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessings of liberty, establish this
> Oregon 1857, Bill of Rights, Article I Section 2. All men shall be secure in the Natural right, to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their consciences
> Pennsylvania 1776, Preamble We, the people of Pennsylvania , grateful to Almighty God for the blessings of civil and religious liberty, and humbly invoking His guidance.....
> Rhode Island 1842, Preamble. We the People of the State of Rhode Island grateful to Almighty God for the civil and religious liberty which He hath so long permitted us to enjoy, and looking to Him for a blessing...
> South Carolina , 1778, Preamble We, the people of he State of South Carolina grateful to God for our liberties, do ordain and establish this Constitution.
> South Dakota 1889, Preamble We, the people of South Dakota , grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberties ....
> Tennessee 1796, Art. XI..III. That all men have a natural and indefeasible right to worship Almighty God according to the dictates of their conscience...
> Texas 1845, Preamble We the People of the Republic of Texas , acknowledging, with gratitude, the grace and beneficence of God.
> Utah 1896, Preamble Grateful to Almighty God for life and liberty, we establish this Constitution.
> Vermont 1777, Preamble Whereas all government ought to enable the individuals who compose it to enjoy their natural rights, and other blessings which the Author of Existence has bestowed on man ..
> Virginia 1776, Bill of Rights, XVI Religion, or the Duty which we owe our Creator can be directed only by Reason and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian Forbearance, Love and Charity towards each other
> Washington 1889, Preamble We the People of the State of Washington, grateful to the Supreme Ruler of the Universe for our liberties, do ordain this Constitution
> West Virginia 1872, Preamble Since through Divine Providence we enjoy the blessings of civil, political and religious liberty, we, the people of West Virginia reaffirm our faith in and constant reliance upon God ..
> Wisconsin 1848, Preamble We, the people of Wisconsin , grateful to Almighty God for our freedom, domestic tranquility...
> Wyoming 1890, Preamble We, the people of the State of Wyoming , grateful to God for our civil, political, and religious liberties, establish this Constitution...

So I guess all those references to the Almighty God has been interpreted now as just a set of ideals and values.....

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But he said WE don't consider ourselves a muslim nation, a jewish nation, etc......
Again, I am wondering who he is referencing to since the majority of Americans consider themselves Christian in one form or another, and EVERY State constitution say's "WE THE PEOPLE"...so if EVERY state says that, then WE do consider ourselves a religious country.
And to answer the question about what God they are refering to, you would have to understand what they meant when they wrote those words "Almighty God"....they were not refering to Allah, or the Jewish "God"...AND.....since none of these words have been stricken from the State Constitutions, then WE THE PEOPLE are still relevent. I believe over 2/3 of WE THE PEOPLE consider themselves Christian ....
But to be fair, since a small minority are of other religions, then I guess they would consider that is their' God too (although that is not what the PEOPLE meant when they wrote those constitutions, and again, it is still relevent regardless what the ACLU wishes....
So, again.....Obama is not speaking for the majority of the country.

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And for some reason when i wrote the title of the thread when i put a quote before a word, it didn't do the "WE" but did &quot...lol

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Ok....this is what I found on a newsweek poll....
A majority of Americans still consider the United States a Christian nation, with 62 percent agreeing. In 2008, 69 percent agreed. The percentage of those who don't consider the country Christian increased from 26 percent in 2008 to 32 percent today.
So I guess Obama is technically correct but he is refering to "We" as a minority and does not speak for everyone.
not that this makes a whit of difference in the scheme of things. Just makes a good debate :)

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Jacqui wrote:He didn't say we weren't religious, did he? Just that as a nation, we are not defined by one specific religious tag.
Personally, I'd like to see "Hypocrite" added to the list of religions, coz that's a tag that defines most folks who profess religion or Christianity as something they hold dear.
But that's just how I see it, from my attic window.

And you could say that about any group professing a belief, religious or not. There is always a minority of people who are "hypocrites" in their beliefs, and you will always have people pointing at them trying to make it like they represent whatever group they belong to make their point that "these people are a bunch of hypocrites".

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I'm not "slamming" Obama. I just pointed out that he is in error which is a fact. I have did blogs where I have complained about Bush, Clinton, etc. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference who is the president....if he (and in the future "she") is wrong, I will give my opinion. :)

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bipolarbetty wrote:What about the separation of Church and state?

So when President Barack Obama said in Turkey : "We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation or a Jewish nation or a Muslim nation. We consider ourselves a nation of citizens who are bound by ideals and a set of values."

I think what he says makes good sense historically, and is accurate in it's modern application and interpretation.

The phrase separation of church and state is generally referred to the in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution as creating a "wall of separation" between church and state.

I think that's where he gets his opinion when speaking for everyone as a general people, saying sharing values, not religion.

To answer yours and another: There is absolutely nothing in the constitution that refers to seperation of church and state. That was quoted from Thomas Jefferson, and is often quoted without quoting the whole letter which would explain that the government was not going to prefer ONE CHRISTIAN RELIGION OVER ANOTHER.
Second:
John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, and one of the three men most responsible for the writing of the Constitution declared:
"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty-as well as privilege and interest- of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." Still sounds like the Founding Fathers knew this was a Christian nation.
Now, it can be argued that this is in no way ANYMORE a Christian nation as it once was.

Edited on October 22, 2009 at 7:17 PM Permalink

Well, I've actually read the WHOLE letter. The ACLU would prefer people don't though, otherwise people would have seen this was a response to the Baptists who were concerned in that they wanted to make sure they could worship the way they wanted and not be forced to become Catholic. There is not one sentence or proclamation in that letter from Jefferson that said That is exactly what was said. No where did he write that religion should be taken out of schools or government. If anyone who keeps quoting that phrase "Seperation Of Church And State" (which it does not even say it that way), they would realize from the whole letter he was assuring them that they could worship the way they wanted as Christians without the government saying that one religion was preferred over another. If he had meant it the way that people MAKE UP some say it means, then how do they explain that Jefferson attended Church As President at THE LARGEST CHURCH IN THE NATION which held their services in the House Chambers of the Capitol Building in Washington D.C?

Edited on October 22, 2009 at 7:45 PM Permalink

And another that amazes me. Secularists keep making the statement that "God" does not appear in the constitution.
As if that argument makes sense. In EVERY State constitution "GOD" is mentioned. Don't people realize that if this was a violation of "church and state", the Government and courts would have declared these proclamations as in violation?
Since secularists dismiss the mention of God in State Constitutions, then even if God was mentioned, they would dismiss that too. It's an empty argument

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If you know your history, when the State Constitutions were written, the legislators that wrote in the 1700's and 1800's were not Muslim or Jewish...they were Catholic, Protestant, Baptists, etc.....they were referring to the Judeo Christian "God".

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pamplemus wrote:Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, Hugh Williamson, James Madison, John Adams, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen, and Thomas Paine, George Washington and Elihu Palmer were all deists and not distinctly christian at all. Many of the "founding fathers" were masons and by most accounts clearly secular humanists.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ..."
-Thomas Jefferson-

"You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are."

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."
-George Washington-

"I have sometimes thought there could not be a stronger testimony in favor of religion or against temporal enjoyments, even the most rational and manly, than for men who occupy the most honorable and gainful departments and [who] are rising in reputation and wealth, publicly to declare their unsatisfactoriness by becoming fervent advocates in the cause of Christ; and I wish you may give in your evidence in this way"
-James Madison-

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

"The Holy Ghost carries on the whole Christian system in this earth. Not a baptism, not a marriage, not a sacrament can be administered but by the Holy Ghost. . . . There is no authority, civil or religious – there can be no legitimate government but what is administered by this Holy Ghost. There can be no salvation without it. All without it is rebellion and perdition, or in more orthodox words damnation."

"The Christian religion is, above all the religions that ever prevailed or existed in ancient or modern times, the religion of wisdom, virtue, equity and humanity."
-John Adams-

Following his duel with Aaron Burr, in those final twenty four hours while life still remained in him, Hamilton called for two ministers, the Rev. J. M. Mason and the Rev. Benjamin Moore, to pray with him and administer Communion to him. Each of those two ministers reported what transpired. The Rev. Mason recounted:

[General Hamilton said] “I went to the field determined not to take his life.” He repeated his disavowal of all intention to hurt Mr. Burr; the anguish of his mind in recollecting what had passed; and his humble hope of forgiveness from his God. I recurred to the topic of the Divine compassion; the freedom of pardon in the Redeemer Jesus to perishing sinners. “That grace, my dear General, which brings salvation, is rich, rich” – “Yes,” interrupted he, “it is rich grace.” “And on that grace,” continued I, “a sinner has the highest encouragement to repose his confidence, because it is tendered to him upon the surest foundation; the Scrip¬ture testifying that we have redemption through the blood of Jesus, the forgiveness of sins according to the richness of His grace.” Here the General, letting go my hand, which he had held from the moment I sat down at his bed side, clasped his hands together, and, looking up towards Heaven, said, with emphasis, “I have a tender reliance on the mercy of the Al¬mighty, through the merits of the Lord Jesus Christ.”
-Alexander Hamilton-

Ok...I could go on, but I'm tired researching :)

Edited on October 27, 2009 at 5:37 AM Permalink

kkidd wrote:

Sirfitz wrote:If you know your history, when the State Constitutions were written, the legislators that wrote in the 1700's and 1800's were not Muslim or Jewish...they were Catholic, Protestant, Baptists, etc.....they were referring to the Judeo Christian "God".

not sure if you are aware that its the same god. I mean...your right though, lets all follow thier examples...we can go to church then afterwards, take our slaves up into the hayloft for a bit.....or maybe take a trip to paris and follow Bens lead...maybe get us a few dozen whores...nice....then we can all go tend our hemp fields....i love following our historical forefounders....such fun....of course...we are going to need to find another indigeneous people to transplant and murder....well...we still have the eskimoes.....

I don't know what Christians your talking about. Weekend Christians? The few do not speak for the many. As I said before, a few bad apples does not make a Church. There are hypocrites in every organization, and it seems that these are pointed out as what that org. is.
If people beleive that, then those same people should say the Muslim religion is evil because of the actions of a small minority who claim they are Muslim.

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