SOCIALIZED MEDICINE

It isn’t that liberals are ignorant. It’s just that they know so much that isn’t so. Ronald Reagan

So long as we're sharing quotes there's one from one of our greatest presidents.

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blaza wrote:I agree jardiniera. In any system there will be those who abuse. It is unavoidable and not a valid reason to be anti-socialized medicine.

Blaza...I am not 100% anti-socialized medicine. I just think there is a better solution somewhere but I don't have the answer. I am from a very high welfare populated area in Tennessee that also carries a very high crime rate. I see the misuse in our government programs on a daily basis while I see people working their tails off to try to keep their head above the water. I see people who are on these programs who will probably never come off them because it's too easy to just stay on them. I don't call that helping these people but I guess some people would. I do realize that sometimes in order to help the ones who deserve it you have to accept that people less deserving will get the benefits also. Making things affordable (not free to all) just seems like a better solution in my opinion. I also realize that some do need free health care and there should be something in place but again...for those who do need it. These programs need more regulation but I guess it's easier to just throw the money out there than it is to pay people to regulate them.

There are things about socialized medicine that scares me especially when there is talk of rationed medical care. I definitely don't want to see our elderly have to just die because they have reached a certain age and some bureaucrat doesn't think it's feasible to give them the treatment they need. That is one of several fears.

Edited on March 3, 2009 at 3:39 PM Permalink

Well Rita, there you have it. You have no better solutions and the vast majority of Americans, as well as most of our leaders, have realized for some time that our health care system has been broken for decades. We are in something between a depression and a recession. I say it's more than high time for some radical reform and a crisis is not only the best time to do it, in practical politics it's the only time anything radical ever gets done. We have no choice if we care about improving things as the for-profit health care system has not solved the problem, only made it worse so it's time for the govt. to fix it for those not already covered by the govt. The private system had their chance for over 30 years and used the time only to put off govt. intervention and milk all the profit they could off patients and employers who provide insurance to workers.

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starvin_arvins wrote:It isn’t that liberals are ignorant. It’s just that they know so much that isn’t so. Ronald Reagan

So long as we're sharing quotes there's one from one of our greatest presidents.

Just wondering what the above quote has to do with this discussion.

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I am still awaiting for the HIGH QUALITY of HEALTHCARE, that Ari mentioned LOL. ( read back to my first post to see the great quality of healthcare I have recieved thus far lol)

I just came back from my post-op appt, which I didn't have. My appt was at Noon, it is now 3hrs later and did not get to see the doctor. I LEFT! I have no problem waiting but I went into a coughing fit( my nexium quit working early as usual lol, which is normal for me cus of the acid reflux.) The coughing fit made my throat swell up where I have my incisicions, made me feel like I was choking and pain started setting in. I did not bring any pain meds cus they are strong and they make me dizzy/drowsy. I did not take any prior to coming either cus otherwise I could not drive myself to see the doctor. I was not expecting to wait over an hour to see him. I was told on the phone that more than likely I'd be waiting an hour at the most, since this was just a quick post-op appt, which the appt would only take about 2-5 minutes and be on my merry way home. So, since I was driving myself, I did not bring any pain meds with me cus then who is driving me back?lol Well, after waiting for almost 3hrs and now I am in pain, I could not wait anymore. I knock on the door to see what the hold up is and the nurse tells me he is in the OR( operating room) and that they don't know how much longer he is going to be. So, I told them I was in pain and that I was going home. They asked me if I didn't have any pain meds on me and if there is anyway that I could wait a cpl of hours longer? I said no & no, what would be the point if I can't take them since I drove me here? They look at me and say, yes that is true. I asked if they could get me something lighter to take for the pain. THey tell me that they would have to talk to the doctor but that would not be possible since he is in the OR. LMAO

So, they have rescheduled me to see him in 2 weeks. The ENT doctor they have on staff there is basically a borrowed doctor, he comes in every 2 weeks and patients wait for hours upon hours just to see him for 2 minutes. I aint exaggerating either on the time, 2 minutes cus he is in a hurry to see the 100 patients waiting for him in the waiting area and has ONE day to do it in LOL. I have waited up to 6hrs to see him before. He has regular appts and sometimes he also has surgeries on that same day. When I went in for my thyroidectamy, they told me to be there at 9am. I asked what time I was supposed to go in for surgery. They told me 11:30am. I thought that was pretty good in waiting time. Well, I did not go into a room till 1pm and I did not go into surgery till 6pm. By then, I had had a migraine for 7hrs cus I had, had nothing to eat since 11pm the night prior to surgery, nothing to drink other than enough water to swallow my pills at 8am. So, my stomache was growling and my head was pounding LOL.

I get better service in Mexico! Which is why I am having my other surgeries done in Mexico LOL. At least in Mexico, when I need an appt, all I have to do is call them and tell them, that I am on my way LOL. It may take me 2hrs to see him but at least 2hrs is better than a year down the road. A year ago, I was given my appt for my first ENT appt and it was for May 19 of 2009. If I had waited till then, which would have been more than a year waiting, my thyroid nodule could have turned into cancer. I called them back and said I could not wait a year, if I do, I will kill me some doctors. Nurse on the end tells me to relax and she will see what she can do LOL. Next thing I know, I have an appt 3 months down the road instead of a year and a half later LOL. I wouldn't have pushed if I didn't feel that coughing on a daily basis was normal and not getting sleep cus of it was not causing me to become postal LOL

Ok now to bed I go, pain meds kicking in LOL. Have a nice day.
OH and Tom....quit holding your breathe, it aint going to happen LOL. :)

Edited on March 3, 2009 at 4:11 PM Permalink

I know it ain't going to happen cheeky, I just enjoy giving her her well-deserved tauntings!

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*****disclaimer****

Please don't let ari's attitude taint your view of American's...
Contrary to her inferences she speaks for one woman driven by her disdain for anything Rush Limbaugh does not condone.

I object to creating multiple threads for the same intended purpose by one individual.. Bashing President Obama...

Let's merge these into one titled.. Hmmmm.. Guess who hates the president...

or.. the infinite copy and pastes that offer no alternatives just negativity....

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Stephanie23 wrote:*****disclaimer****

Please don't let ari's attitude taint your view of American's...
Contrary to her inferences she speaks for one woman driven by her disdain for anything Rush Limbaugh does not condone.

I object to creating multiple threads for the same intended purpose by one individual.. Bashing President Obama...

Let's merge these into one titled.. Hmmmm.. Guess who hates the president...

or.. the infinite copy and pastes that offer no alternatives just negativity....

Well said Steph, I think a thread titled "Why Ari Hates Obama As Explained By Rush And Glenn Beck, Fox News, Etc." would be much simpler and great truth in advertising, lol!

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Arizonagal wrote:

tomac626 wrote:
It really is that simple and Ari is so hypocritical to call libs sanctimonious. I also notice how she hasn't responded to any specific criticisms I've made on this thread, at least not in any way that challenges the ideas I've put out.

I, am so sick of my country being ruined and held back by people like her that worship at the alter of individualism and then expect to be saluted for their selfishness and then they turn around saying in the same breath they are more patriotic than me and other libs. Patriotic about what. a country of one, herself? There's no patriotism when you're always and only out for yourself! I'd like to know what Ari has ever sacrificed for her country and what she feels she ought to share with others, things that might involve real patriotism.

jardiniera wrote:
No, you're right on the money. Given her responses so far, it's obvious that she has neither the knowledge nor the interest in really getting into an intelligent debate about this subject. If she can prove me wrong, I'd gladly take this statement back because I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.

But to continuously post articles from one conservative news source on the "evils" of social medicine without adding any personal commentary on the subject holds no water with me. And no, her comments above stating silly stuff like "I don't want herbs to be outlawed" don't count, because they have no basis in reality. I asked her what she thinks should be done to overhaul the system, if anything, and was met with silence. But that's par for the course, isn't it?

Spawn_Of_Kya wrote:

tomac626 wrote:And still no answer from Ari on the selfishness issue. Oh well, no surprise there.

It comes down to how long you wish to hold your breath.. I have asked questions a while ago that still were never answered..

Ari Obsessing

That's my gal! No specifics, just her usual stock reply. She never disappoints me there.
Well enuf sick fun with Ari. Time for me to step away from the keys and take a walk for an half hour. Be back this evening. See you then Ari, don't be late, lol!

Edited on March 3, 2009 at 4:29 PM Permalink

Arizonagal wrote:

tomac626 wrote:
It really is that simple and Ari is so hypocritical to call libs sanctimonious. I also notice how she hasn't responded to any specific criticisms I've made on this thread, at least not in any way that challenges the ideas I've put out.

I, am so sick of my country being ruined and held back by people like her that worship at the alter of individualism and then expect to be saluted for their selfishness and then they turn around saying in the same breath they are more patriotic than me and other libs. Patriotic about what. a country of one, herself? There's no patriotism when you're always and only out for yourself! I'd like to know what Ari has ever sacrificed for her country and what she feels she ought to share with others, things that might involve real patriotism.

jardiniera wrote:
No, you're right on the money. Given her responses so far, it's obvious that she has neither the knowledge nor the interest in really getting into an intelligent debate about this subject. If she can prove me wrong, I'd gladly take this statement back because I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.

But to continuously post articles from one conservative news source on the "evils" of social medicine without adding any personal commentary on the subject holds no water with me. And no, her comments above stating silly stuff like "I don't want herbs to be outlawed" don't count, because they have no basis in reality. I asked her what she thinks should be done to overhaul the system, if anything, and was met with silence. But that's par for the course, isn't it?

Spawn_Of_Kya wrote:

tomac626 wrote:And still no answer from Ari on the selfishness issue. Oh well, no surprise there.

It comes down to how long you wish to hold your breath.. I have asked questions a while ago that still were never answered..

Ari Obsessing

Sorry ari.. You may be so self involved to believe that I or anyone else is obsessing but there are things in this world far more important than you are.

Movement towards peace and disarmament, Curing diseases, Resolving starvation. The list goes on and on and I find nothing on my list of important things that says Arizonagal

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Arizonagal wrote:

Novella wrote:

I put in bold the relevant points in Ari's post.
And those statements, my friends, make all difference. I, for one... am glad I reside in a country, where we care about each other.
Not to say all Americans don't. Just some.

Novella wrote:lol.. Well for real.
She spelled it out for us.
I don't know why she needs the other 25 letters of the alphabet.

As we each are individual posters on this thread, we are each speaking on our own behalf...except for me, of course, as I am married and represent "we" in that sense.

Yes Ari.. and it's clear by your post that you don't see beyond your own front door.

That's the entire point of my post and thank-you for providing confirmation :)

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Arizonagal wrote:

Jumpin-Jack-Flash wrote:
1) Yes some Canadians do know the quality of health care which is received. You shouldn't assume that we don't.

2) The purpose of Bill C51 is not to BAN anything but to make sure people are properly taking natural treatments.

Have you ever visited America for any length of time?
Have you ever lived in America, for any length of time?
Were you ever in a situation where you needed a doctor's care while visiting/living in America?

If you answered 'no' to any of the above, then you don't know...plain and simple.

"Hi Kettle, you're black!

Love, Pot"

Yeah.

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Spawn_Of_Kya wrote:

Sorry ari.. You may be so self involved to believe that I or anyone else is obsessing but there are things in this world far more important than you are.

Haha! That's just it. In her mind, there isn't anything more important than her own well-being. Hence her disdain for anything that is beneficial to the nation at large. :)

Edited on March 3, 2009 at 4:36 PM Permalink

phone rang before I layed down, so here I am again LOL.

Obviously, you didn't read about my Most wonderful, fantastic health care experience in the past year and how insurance companies won't take me cus of prior surgeries etc .. They rather hear about my death than provide me with insurance cus then it saves them money LMAO. Yup, we sure do have a wonderful health care system lmao. You obviously love it, so you can keep it. If I was obsessing I would have said more than that. Was merely showing you how wonderful IT AINT.

ok the lights in my brain are about to shut down. BBL :)

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Hi everyone )
I have read everything in this thread and now i want to tell you my experience.
I lived in Canada most my life (socilized medical) Never had any kinds of problems seeing a Dr, getting the care i needed, never a long waiting list, and no large bills to pay for any procedures i have had done, back surgery, operations else where etc.
I moved to the USA 8 years ago and i will be 51 this month. My husband is Civil service retired from reserves. Has been in the airforce 27 years so far. I am a hairstylist and we have also adopted 2 children 11 and 13 years old now.
It taks me at least a week here to see my reg. Dr,, for my women things lol, i made my apointment in Feb. and can't see the Dr till May. We have blue cross blue shield and pay out the ying yang for it. Plus it is now $20 to see a Dr. I am allowed 1 mamagram a year and when they find something i have to go back i pay over half the expence to have another one, and it is my Dr that makes these appointments. Any procedure you have here you pay out the azzzzzz for it.
Now i agree in Canada we do pay higher taxes to cover this medical care and procedures. But i tell ya i would rather it come out in my taxes where you hardly see it then have $1000s sent to me in the mail. We do not get it free but we sure help alot of people, I have never gotten bad medical care in Canada and i lived there 42 years. Our seniors are well taken care of and can efford their medications they need. Our kids are well taken care of and get the best care. And yes those less fortunate then some of us are not dieing on the streets or dieing because of lack of medical care.
I have a friend here in the US right now that has cancer and never smoked a day in her life, they have lost near everything because of her medical expenses, they were well of people that worked hard all their lives, now she can't efford the procedures, the Dr has given her a month to live :(
I know many others here that have lost alot, hard working folks, but because of medical problems of their children or loved ones, they have lost so much of what they worked for. This can happen to any of us in the blink of an eye. Thats why i do beleave in the socilized medical.
I know for those of you that have never had it, it is probably scary, because it is something new and unknown to you. But the unknown is always scary right?
I do not feel that it is like something free or hand out from goverment in Canada, because we do pay higher taxes for it, and it realy seems to work. I myself do not mind to help pay for someone else to have better health care, majority of the time it is just families that are down and out and need help. I know there are those that abuse it and i don't like it, but that is how it goes in society. But for the most part, it is people that need help from all walks of life. Thats all i have to say, just my experience and how i feel. We all have our own apinions and untill you have experienced both sided of the boarder, i don't realy think you know what it is realy like :) Oh and the medication part is alot higher here to, and there are alot of folks from the US that go to Canada to get it at a better price and i don't blame them. People have to do what they have to do to survive. We have great Dr's in both countries :) its just the cost that is killing us in the US.
Have a nice day,, Brenda

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Arizonagal wrote:

Jumpin-Jack-Flash wrote:
1) Yes some Canadians do know the quality of health care which is received. You shouldn't assume that we don't.

2) The purpose of Bill C51 is not to BAN anything but to make sure people are properly taking natural treatments.

Have you ever visited America for any length of time?
Have you ever lived in America, for any length of time?
Were you ever in a situation where you needed a doctor's care while visiting/living in America?

If you answered 'no' to any of the above, then you don't know...plain and simple.

Have you ever visited America for any length of time?
Have you ever lived in America, for any length of time?
Were you ever in a situation where you needed a doctor's care while visiting/living in America?

Yes Yes and Yes. I guess I know, plain and simple.

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Thanks for sharing Brenda. And you're right, more and more people in the U.S are getting their drugs from Canada. Not only are they much cheaper, they will give you several months' supply.

Last year I had an eye infection that I picked up on the job and had to go to my opthamologist for special antibiotic eye drops. My insurance didn't cover it so I had to pay $160 out of pocket for a bottle that was 1/10 of an ounce. My husband and I estimated that a gallon of that medicine would cost upwards of $200,000. This would never be allowed under a socialized medicine program, which is why so many lobbyists and special interests are against it. After all, if we had universal health care, they may not be able to continue to live in their 5000 square foot mansions and drive BMW's, and that's what life is all about, isn't it?

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jardiniera wrote:Thanks for sharing Brenda. And you're right, more and more people in the U.S are getting their drugs from Canada. Not only are they much cheaper, they will give you several months' supply.

Last year I had an eye infection that I picked up on the job and had to go to my opthamologist for special antibiotic eye drops. My insurance didn't cover it so I had to pay $160 out of pocket for a bottle that was 1/10 of an ounce. My husband and I estimated that a gallon of that medicine would cost upwards of $200,000. This would never be allowed under a socialized medicine program, which is why so many lobbyists and special interests are against it. After all, if we had universal health care, they may not be able to continue to live in their 5000 square foot mansions and drive BMW's, and that's what life is all about, isn't it?

Well Jardi that is what some people choose to do, live in 5000 square foot houses, drive BMWs and so on. But that can allllll be taken away in a blink. I myself am an ordinary person, none of that rich type stuff :) I am not a materilistic person, i would rather take care of my family and look out for the less fortunate. You know my grandpa useto say the rich get richer and the poor get poorer,, but i think things will start to change rather they like it or not lol. Nothing stays the same forever. And i think the US is finding that out now. I guess i just look down the road to what my children and grandchildren will have to face and i want to look out for them :)

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I have my mom send me meds from Mexico cus I can get more for my buck, than what I get here LOL.

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Arizonagal wrote:

tomac626 wrote:
It really is that simple and Ari is so hypocritical to call libs sanctimonious. I also notice how she hasn't responded to any specific criticisms I've made on this thread, at least not in any way that challenges the ideas I've put out.

I, am so sick of my country being ruined and held back by people like her that worship at the alter of individualism and then expect to be saluted for their selfishness and then they turn around saying in the same breath they are more patriotic than me and other libs. Patriotic about what. a country of one, herself? There's no patriotism when you're always and only out for yourself! I'd like to know what Ari has ever sacrificed for her country and what she feels she ought to share with others, things that might involve real patriotism.

jardiniera wrote:
No, you're right on the money. Given her responses so far, it's obvious that she has neither the knowledge nor the interest in really getting into an intelligent debate about this subject. If she can prove me wrong, I'd gladly take this statement back because I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.

But to continuously post articles from one conservative news source on the "evils" of social medicine without adding any personal commentary on the subject holds no water with me. And no, her comments above stating silly stuff like "I don't want herbs to be outlawed" don't count, because they have no basis in reality. I asked her what she thinks should be done to overhaul the system, if anything, and was met with silence. But that's par for the course, isn't it?

Spawn_Of_Kya wrote:

tomac626 wrote:And still no answer from Ari on the selfishness issue. Oh well, no surprise there.

It comes down to how long you wish to hold your breath.. I have asked questions a while ago that still were never answered..

Cheekylilvixen wrote:I am still awaiting for the HIGH QUALITY of HEALTHCARE, that Ari mentioned LOL. OH and Tom....quit holding your breathe, it aint going to happen LOL. :)

tomac626 wrote:I know it ain't going to happen cheeky, I just enjoy giving her her well-deserved tauntings!

tomac626 wrote:
That's my gal! No specifics, just her usual stock reply. She never disappoints me there.
Well enuf sick fun with Ari. Time for me to step away from the keys and take a walk for an half hour. Be back this evening. See you then Ari, don't be late, lol!

Ari Obsessing...and I'm not your gal, Tom...even tho' you wish I was. ;)

Regarding your tag line of your self-flattering illusion I would have any attraction to you (guess you're too dim to get sarcasm or patronizing words)........it's like jardi said about a similar line from you directed towards her, I don't know which I need worse now, to bleach my eyes or toss my cookies. No lol here. I value my health so I'll stick to tossing my cookies if I have to.

Edited on March 3, 2009 at 7:10 PM Permalink

tomac626 wrote:

Arizonagal wrote:

tomac626 wrote:
It really is that simple and Ari is so hypocritical to call libs sanctimonious. I also notice how she hasn't responded to any specific criticisms I've made on this thread, at least not in any way that challenges the ideas I've put out.

I, am so sick of my country being ruined and held back by people like her that worship at the alter of individualism and then expect to be saluted for their selfishness and then they turn around saying in the same breath they are more patriotic than me and other libs. Patriotic about what. a country of one, herself? There's no patriotism when you're always and only out for yourself! I'd like to know what Ari has ever sacrificed for her country and what she feels she ought to share with others, things that might involve real patriotism.

jardiniera wrote:
No, you're right on the money. Given her responses so far, it's obvious that she has neither the knowledge nor the interest in really getting into an intelligent debate about this subject. If she can prove me wrong, I'd gladly take this statement back because I have no problem admitting I'm wrong.

But to continuously post articles from one conservative news source on the "evils" of social medicine without adding any personal commentary on the subject holds no water with me. And no, her comments above stating silly stuff like "I don't want herbs to be outlawed" don't count, because they have no basis in reality. I asked her what she thinks should be done to overhaul the system, if anything, and was met with silence. But that's par for the course, isn't it?

Spawn_Of_Kya wrote:

tomac626 wrote:And still no answer from Ari on the selfishness issue. Oh well, no surprise there.

It comes down to how long you wish to hold your breath.. I have asked questions a while ago that still were never answered..

Cheekylilvixen wrote:I am still awaiting for the HIGH QUALITY of HEALTHCARE, that Ari mentioned LOL. OH and Tom....quit holding your breathe, it aint going to happen LOL. :)

tomac626 wrote:I know it ain't going to happen cheeky, I just enjoy giving her her well-deserved tauntings!

tomac626 wrote:
That's my gal! No specifics, just her usual stock reply. She never disappoints me there.
Well enuf sick fun with Ari. Time for me to step away from the keys and take a walk for an half hour. Be back this evening. See you then Ari, don't be late, lol!

Ari Obsessing...and I'm not your gal, Tom...even tho' you wish I was. ;)

Regarding your tag line of your self-flattering illusion I would have any attraction to you (guess you're too dim to get sarcasm or patronizing words)........it's like jardi said about a similar line from you directed towards her, I don't know which I need worse now, to bleach my eyes or toss my cookies. No lol here. I value my health so I'll stick to tossing my cookies if I have to.

lol....if you don't hear from her for a while it's probably because she's either busy changing her profile pic for the 100th time or copy/pasting Newsmax articles in another poli thread or scripture in the beliefs folders.....she may just be the absolute proof we need of how poor our healthcare system actually is, if you know what I mean!!!

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Ari, I know I'm going off topic here...just thought I'd give you a word of encouragement. I hear these libs criticize your thread yet they keep coming back to talk to you. Wish had had that much time to spare. Anyway...keep educating the libs. Hearing them debate keeps me laughing and coming back (when I can).

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< is not a lib ....I aint for any political party. Heck, I can't even VOTE! lol

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starvin_arvins wrote:Ari, I know I'm going off topic here...just thought I'd give you a word of encouragement. I hear these libs criticize your thread yet they keep coming back to talk to you. Wish had had that much time to spare. Anyway...keep educating the libs. Hearing them debate keeps me laughing and coming back (when I can).

If a condescending joke is truly funny, make yourself the subject- you will increase the number of people laughing by at least one.

- Joe Harsel

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Jumpin-Jack-Flash wrote:

A10cgirl wrote:Every emergency room in my area (that I know of) has a sign right in the lobby saying that no one will be refused medical treatment regardless of their ability to pay for treatment.

Well to avoid a lawsuit they would technically have to provide that. If they didn't people could sue for failure to up hold the Hippocratic Oath.

However what happens when they can't pay the bill? What happens when they can't afford the prescriptions they need? I could see bills starting to get quite high especially once the interest starts to add up.

Jack, I've had a few medical bills that I've had to pay off by the month and I don't know about other areas but I've never had to pay any interest on medical bills. You may be talking about if you paid them with your credit card but our hospitals and doctors will usually work with you to pay them directly which is what I've done when needed. When I've had to do this I just have a little more taken from my payroll to put in my HSA to cover the monthly payment since the HSA is tax free.

I would like to ask you a question though since you are one that will answer my questions without accusations.

I read the article from the link that Novella posted and I may have interpreted this wrong but this is my question...If a person wanted to go somewhere else for better treatment and could afford that treatment is it illegal for them to receive that treatment and pay for it or just illegal for them to have private insurance to cover it? I find this disturbing either way but wanted to clear it up for myself. I'm really trying to understand all this because I know we are going to be faced with some of it sooner or later. They say that the U.S. healthcare reform plans are loosely based on Canada's. I'm not sure how loosely but would like to understand yours better.

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A10cgirl wrote:

Jumpin-Jack-Flash wrote:

A10cgirl wrote:Every emergency room in my area (that I know of) has a sign right in the lobby saying that no one will be refused medical treatment regardless of their ability to pay for treatment.

Well to avoid a lawsuit they would technically have to provide that. If they didn't people could sue for failure to up hold the Hippocratic Oath.

However what happens when they can't pay the bill? What happens when they can't afford the prescriptions they need? I could see bills starting to get quite high especially once the interest starts to add up.

Jack, I've had a few medical bills that I've had to pay off by the month and I don't know about other areas but I've never had to pay any interest on medical bills. You may be talking about if you paid them with your credit card but our hospitals and doctors will usually work with you to pay them directly which is what I've done when needed. When I've had to do this I just have a little more taken from my payroll to put in my HSA to cover the monthly payment since the HSA is tax free.

I would like to ask you a question though since you are one that will answer my questions without accusations.

I read the article from the link that Novella posted and I may have interpreted this wrong but this is my question...If a person wanted to go somewhere else for better treatment and could afford that treatment is it illegal for them to receive that treatment and pay for it or just illegal for them to have private insurance to cover it? I find this disturbing either way but wanted to clear it up for myself. I'm really trying to understand all this because I know we are going to be faced with some of it sooner or later. They say that the U.S. healthcare reform plans are loosely based on Canada's. I'm not sure how loosely but would like to understand yours better.

The only "treatment" per say that is illegal regardless if it is done in Canada or not is assisted suicide. Other then that Canadians can go elsewhere for better treatment if they can afford it.

In regards to insurance they cannot have an insurance company cover the same things the health care system does. Being able to get this would be next to if not impossible though since such coverage is banned. However people can opt get insurance/benefits to help with some other medical things. For example the health care takes care of you if your sick, but theres something things you might want to get checked annually but since you're not sick and in need of treatment it won't cover you. Two good examples of this are optometrist and dentist visits. The insurance I have through work covers 80% of the cost for these visits, however say I developed a medical condition which affects my eyes, then I wouldn't have to worry about anything in regards to paying. My mother for example has diabetes, this is an illness which effects the eyes so her visits are completely free.

Another thing that you can get insurance for is percriptions, and I mean both drugs and glasses. I have to get my eyes checked next week. Thankfuly I don't have diabetes, however I will have to pay 20% of the cost. If, and I probably will, need glasses the insurance will pay 80% on my first pair. (This makes 2 for 1 deals great!). Another thing I have 80% off of is any medication I may need to take. Prices are already reduced however I have another 80% off due to insurance. This only applies to things I have a prescription for though.

I can't go into a pharmacy and say this is what I need, I want my health care system and insurance to pay for it. Thats not the way it works. I can only get the extra money off if its a prescription. A good example for this is, in order for me to effectively speak or eat or do anything oral, I need to freeze my mouth with something called xylocaine. When I first started with this I needed a prescription to get it, this means yay 80% off. However now you don't need one and only need to ask for it over the counter which means I pay the full price.

Finally the only other thing is hospital coverage. The health care system makes sure you get a place in a ward. Semi Privates and Privates cost money, only on the grounds that you requested to be their though. However normally when someone goes in a hospital is so packed that they put you where they can find a place, then when a room opens up which has the level of your coverage they will put you there if you're not already gone. My coverage entitles me to a Private, which means if I end up at the hospital and am admitted, then I won't pay any out of pocket expenses there for being in a private and my insurance company takes care of it.

I hope this answers that question for you, sorry if it doesn't. Had a really really long night and am half awake.

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A must see. One of our greatest presidents, Ronald Raegan, speaks against Socialized Healthcare.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs

Hope you watch. He explains it so well.

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A10cgirl wrote:I would like to ask you a question though since you are one that will answer my questions without accusations.

I realize I might have come off this way and if so I apologize. We may not agree on a lot of things but I still appreciate the fact that you're willing to look at both sides of the coin and engage in respectful conversation.

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Thanks, Jack for answering that. You cleared it up very well for me. It's really hard to get the real picture when all the pros and cons are being thrown at you so fast from different analyst through the internet. It's nice to hear how it works for someone actually involved with it instead of all the bureaucratic mumbo jumbo.

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jardiniera wrote:

A10cgirl wrote:I would like to ask you a question though since you are one that will answer my questions without accusations.

I realize I might have come off this way and if so I apologize. We may not agree on a lot of things but I still appreciate the fact that you're willing to look at both sides of the coin and engage in respectful conversation.

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. I just felt like I was being labeled as selfish and non-caring. There is nothing wrong in wanting to look out for yourself and the world would be a better place if everyone would try it. I don't take it lightly that other people need help and am willing to do my part but still don't make apologies for not wanting to do that for people who abuse the system. I'm 55 years old, single and face retirement in about 10 years. After working all my life and trying to save for that day, just in the past few months, I've had to move my 401K into a more stable asset where it doesn't make anything because I couldn't afford to lose anymore on it than I had. The government has spent our Social Security which I've paid into since I was 16 years old and we don't even know if it's going to be there in 10 years. Health issues start setting in on top of it all that go along with getting older. I don't expect to retire and be able to travel the world but I would like to be able to have my house paid for and at least not have to worry every day how I'm going to pay my bills and put food on the table. I don't think it's selfish or uncaring at all for me to care about my future and how government is going to play a part in it.

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A10cgirl wrote:

jardiniera wrote:

A10cgirl wrote:I would like to ask you a question though since you are one that will answer my questions without accusations.

I realize I might have come off this way and if so I apologize. We may not agree on a lot of things but I still appreciate the fact that you're willing to look at both sides of the coin and engage in respectful conversation.

I wasn't referring to anyone in particular. I just felt like I was being labeled as selfish and non-caring. There is nothing wrong in wanting to look out for yourself and the world would be a better place if everyone would try it. I don't take it lightly that other people need help and am willing to do my part but still don't make apologies for not wanting to do that for people who abuse the system. I'm 55 years old, single and face retirement in about 10 years. After working all my life and trying to save for that day, just in the past few months, I've had to move my 401K into a more stable asset where it doesn't make anything because I couldn't afford to lose anymore on it than I had. The government has spent our Social Security which I've paid into since I was 16 years old and we don't even know if it's going to be there in 10 years. Health issues start setting in on top of it all that go along with getting older. I don't expect to retire and be able to travel the world but I would like to be able to have my house paid for and at least not have to worry every day how I'm going to pay my bills and put food on the table. I don't think it's selfish or uncaring at all for me to care about my future and how government is going to play a part in it.

I know you weren't, and I agree with what you're saying too. The future of our country has never looked more uncertain.

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Stephanie23 wrote:*****disclaimer****

Please don't let ari's attitude taint your view of American's...
Contrary to her inferences she speaks for one woman driven by her disdain for anything Rush Limbaugh does not condone.

I object to creating multiple threads for the same intended purpose by one individual.. Bashing President Obama...

Let's merge these into one titled.. Hmmmm.. Guess who hates the president...

or.. the infinite copy and pastes that offer no alternatives just negativity....

I'm certainly all for merging the "I hate Obama" threads into one. Beats having to chase Ari all over the message board to see what she's up to LOL.

P.S I love our socialized medicine here in Canada
and there is no hospital in this country
that I could not go into and get emergency treatment
without having to pay for it through the nose.

And under my medical insurance
if I have to get treatment in the U.S.
it is covered........... gotta hate that socialized medicine eh
as it gives treatment to you
whether you have money or not.

Edited on March 4, 2009 at 5:18 PM Permalink

^^^^^^^HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! Hi Ari! LOLOL

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Spawn_Of_Kya wrote:I live in Canada.. We do have socialized medicine and I am so thankful that I don't have to worry about bringing a cheque book when i go to the emergency room. If I need a transplant... I don't have to pay for it.. If I need a surgery I can get it if I need to see my family doctor I don't have to pay a fee... I thank god every day that I live in a country where Health care is accessible to all

I live in the USA and we have health care that is accessable to all as well. The difference is we think that you should be responsible for the cost yourself. I don't like the idea of paying for others health care. I am responsible in my life, I went to school, I learned a trade and I worked myself up and I pay my bills. If I want a doctor to spend time with me I will pay for it. I just do not think it is the place of the government to pay for my health care or anyone elses.

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wizard_of_ice wrote:

Spawn_Of_Kya wrote:I live in Canada.. We do have socialized medicine and I am so thankful that I don't have to worry about bringing a cheque book when i go to the emergency room. If I need a transplant... I don't have to pay for it.. If I need a surgery I can get it if I need to see my family doctor I don't have to pay a fee... I thank god every day that I live in a country where Health care is accessible to all

I live in the USA and we have health care that is accessable to all as well. The difference is we think that you should be responsible for the cost yourself. I don't like the idea of paying for others health care. I am responsible in my life, I went to school, I learned a trade and I worked myself up and I pay my bills. If I want a doctor to spend time with me I will pay for it. I just do not think it is the place of the government to pay for my health care or anyone elses.

So you're saying you don't care to help those unfortunate not to have the money so they can see a doctor? So much for helping one another..

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I'm all for socialized medicine. I don't think that healthcare should be based on how much money a person has.

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wizard_of_ice wrote:

Spawn_Of_Kya wrote:I live in Canada.. We do have socialized medicine and I am so thankful that I don't have to worry about bringing a cheque book when i go to the emergency room. If I need a transplant... I don't have to pay for it.. If I need a surgery I can get it if I need to see my family doctor I don't have to pay a fee... I thank god every day that I live in a country where Health care is accessible to all

I live in the USA and we have health care that is accessable to all as well. The difference is we think that you should be responsible for the cost yourself. I don't like the idea of paying for others health care. I am responsible in my life, I went to school, I learned a trade and I worked myself up and I pay my bills. If I want a doctor to spend time with me I will pay for it. I just do not think it is the place of the government to pay for my health care or anyone elses.

I guess that's fine if you go to the doctor for a cold or some other minor illness. What if someone has a long term and life threatening illness, like cancer where the costs can run into thousands and thousands of pounds/dollars/etc?

Are you saying that those who can't pay, should die?

I know people from the US who have to remortgage their houses to pay for their cancer treatment, despite them having worked when they were well. This is wrong!

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wizard_of_ice wrote:

Spawn_Of_Kya wrote:I live in Canada.. We do have socialized medicine and I am so thankful that I don't have to worry about bringing a cheque book when i go to the emergency room. If I need a transplant... I don't have to pay for it.. If I need a surgery I can get it if I need to see my family doctor I don't have to pay a fee... I thank god every day that I live in a country where Health care is accessible to all

I live in the USA and we have health care that is accessable to all as well. The difference is we think that you should be responsible for the cost yourself. I don't like the idea of paying for others health care. I am responsible in my life, I went to school, I learned a trade and I worked myself up and I pay my bills. If I want a doctor to spend time with me I will pay for it. I just do not think it is the place of the government to pay for my health care or anyone elses.

I work in healthcare in the U.S. and have for over a decade, and I can say unequivocally that our healthcare is definitely not accessible to all. It's also not quality healthcare; if it was we wouldn't rank #37 as compared to the rest of the world. And price is one of the main reasons why it isn't accessible to all. If you were told you needed certain procedures and medicine that would cost you $50,000 out of your own pocket, would it be accessible to you? Is that what you consider accessible? Because that's what some people are facing. Bankruptcy and foreclosure because they have so much medical debt.

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Like I said before, I CAN'T have Health Insurance. All because of a surgery I had through another insurance company( military insurance). I have to wait for 7yrs from my surgery date before they can even think about letting me have insurance. Until then, I have to use a hospitals 'poor mans insurance' which is just horrible when it comes to health care but it is better than nothing at all. I have had 2 major surgeries in the past 3yrs. So probably, if I try to get insurance again next year, they will tell me that I can't and have to wait another 7yrs. What kinda screwed up health care system is that? Oh and that does not guarantee me that they will accept me either LOL. Then I have to go through their screening questions. Have you had this? Does this run in your family? etc .... Well since you do have this and this does run in your family ..SORRY CAN'T ACCEPT YOU! NO HEALTH INSURANCE FOR YOU! You are screwed, you have to pay out of pocket to be able to keep on living LMAO. As I said before, they rather see you dead first than give you health insurance. Cus then it saves them money from having to take care of your sick health.

Yup, the US has a fantastic health care system LOL

PS. I have worked hard, have learned a trade, have an education. So, why don't I have health insurance? Has nothing to do with not having money or being responsible ... So, tell me what is it then? I have gone through lots of health insurances and they all tell me the same BS. You have to wait 7yrs from the date of your surgery before they can consider me. I know why they do this but meanwhile, I get stuck with no insurance and have to pay out the butt for anything that goes wrong with me. If I can't and get real sick, what's going to happen to my kids???? Are you willing to take care of my kids?

Oh of course not cus they aint yours, not your responsibility etc ..

Me, Me, Me mentality that my bf tells me about on a daily basis is becoming more apparent. I am starting to see it more clearly now. My bf is right ...sshhh don't tell him I said that tho LOL.

Edited on March 5, 2009 at 10:04 AM Permalink