Beth, Wizard & Sammy, you all made my point. It affects everyone differently. You all may have had no side effects, but how many can honestly say that? By the way, this happened in Jamaica some years ago, and I'd hazard a guess that it was not laced with anything....PCP/LSD was not very well known then, and I doubt those boys could have been able to afford it anyway. In addition, and I say this in all seriousness, unfortunately, weed smoking Jamaicans take the quality of their weed seriously, (I'm told we have the best quality there), they'd never add stuff to it. At least, not back then.
I have been around for a long time and I do agree that Marijuana is just a mellow drug that will eventually not be enough for some people and they will move to harder things. Same as with beer after a while you need to have some of that harder liquor, but once again I know Marijuana isn't a hullucination drug. I know that joint was laced with either LSD or PCP and or even Formaldihyde also know as tied stick.All of my friends when back in the day just were a little more enhanced in the way they percieved things or thought. Noone ever had a bad effect. Maybe wanting to overdose on cheeseburgers. I understand the things that might concern some people, like freaking out but it is not from MArijuana alone. I smoked weed for about 20 years so I do agree it is addicting, that I know for sure.I couldn't quit no matter how I tried. I know Marijuana is just like liquor, It just mellows you out. I am a professional on this topic. I have crossed it from Mexico to here. I have drenched it in pcp lsd and formaldihyde, I have rolled about more that 100,000 joints in my life time, I have smoked with first timers and veterens, I can still grow the best tasting slowest burning weed out there,so yes I am a very knowlegable person on this topic. Although I've been smoke free for 15 years now and counting.
Reply by redvixenGOLD on February 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM
wizard_of_ice wrote:I could see some drugs like PCP or LSD doing that but not usually marijuanna. Although I have known many who have drunk beer and wrecked their car. Any time you drink or smoke you have to take on some responsibility for your behavior. Sad to hear of anyone going off the roof of a building.
I smoked it everyday when I was younger say between about 15 yrs old until about 30. Sometimes even in large amounts lol....I can say it does not cause delusions or hallucinations of any kind. Everyone is different , true, however I would rather take the risks myself and be responsible for my own actions than have the government babysit me and control my life and tell me what I can and cannot do. It is just not the job of the government to protect me from myself.
redvixen wrote:
wizard_of_ice wrote:and by the way it really does not help for pain but does for nausea. It does however make one lazy and makes simple things more interesting.
HAHA.....WIZ!
I remember now Wiz, that day you refused the lift cause you was so unsure which direction you were going :)
wizard_of_ice wrote:Marijuana is very far from being an hallucinigen. Any one who claims this is so is either ignorant or using the statement as a propaganda tool. I remember in grade school in the 60's they showed us all a film where a guy smoked it and looked in a mirror and a monster came out of it at him. This type of intentional lie is likely the cause of other more dangerous drugs being used as people stop beleiving something is dangerous because they have been lied to so much. Once you realize the government and other authority figures are intentionally lying to us to control you it is hard to take anything they tell us seriously.
and as far as inducing "psychosis" in "some" people....well hamburgers can too...not very likely for either but just as possible.
The only harm caused by marijuana is the harm done by the governments who attempt to ban it. It is so silly to take someone who smoked or otherwise ingested a simple weed and put them in jail.
And in truth...it isn't any of the governments business anyway.
That is but YOUR opinion.
Marijuana is classified as a mild hallucigen whether you want to accept that or not. Are you are an expert on drug classification? And able to debunk experts who have done studies and made a link to possible psychosis being triggered with use of marijuana? I was just offering further information for people to ponder.
I am the one who mentioned it being a hallucinagen and you posted that anyone who says this is either ignorant or using the statement as a propaganda tool. I was just passing along information that I've been taught since I was in high school and read ever since. And I'd rather listen to experts than one person's opinion who has only good experiences with pot. Because I know that doesn't reflect everyone's experience. I know tons of people who smoke regularly, it's everywhere around here. And that's good for them, they relax after work. I don't judge them. But I know someone who got so addicted to it, it almost ruined their life. Not so good for them. This person could not control their use.
And I happen to think alcohol is alot worse, Mexi-can. Nothing worse than a mean stinking drunk. But I've seen peeps who were using pot excessively and chronically and they were really annoying too. Going around wearing sunglasses during the day to hide their bloodshot eyes trying to function and not doing it a very good job of it at all.
edit to add: I don't think people should be thrown in jail for using pot, it's not done around here really, just for the peeps who have large grow-ops in their homes.
well i seen it. smelled it .. lit it.. but i didn't inhale it!!! so ok i lied!!!i for one did not survie the late sixtys early seventy's without indulging, i've seen refer madness too!! lmao... don't recall a single life threatning situation due to it amoung anyone i ever knew.. people do get killed over it sure .and i think if it was legal maybee that number whatever it is would go down. i also believe that apathy in an already apathetic society would go up!
Do you think that there should be regulation of when, where, why etc? For example....should someone be allowed to smoke pot and then work? Which occupations? Assembly line? Surgery? Caring for children? Teaching? Or should they not be allowed to be under the influence on the job...similar to alcohol? Since smoking pot is less obvious than drinking, would you then agree that drug testing would be more necessary? What would be the repercussions down the road if pot became legal? And how much would be legal? Would there be a limit? A measurement? Also....since it's potency would then be controlled, we know that 'criminals' would still grow the ass-kicking pot out there currently. How would we know if someone has one of those or a legal reefer? I can tell you that I'm one of those ones who can barely be in the same room where it's being smoked without being sedated for hours afterwards...lol.
***BTW I'm the one whose (ex-stoner 70s) hubby was in ER Christmas Eve after being given a super-strength pot-laced brownie.***
Edit to add some things I forgot.
Asthma treated with SMOKING anything is ridiculous in my opinion. Asthma is a lung disease. How on earth could inhaling smoke of any kind be beneficial? Do you feel that smoking around people who are sensitive to the effects or smoke from marijuana should be limited or not allowed?
Reply by beth063GOLD on February 5, 2009 at 9:56 AM
redneck_country_girl wrote:legalize it yea right then the goverment would not get a profit from the busts....that isnt gonna happen
Exactly.
And that is why ...at least one of the main reasons why it hasn't happened. Another would probably be the idea that it would probably make a lot of people look pretty stupid at this point because they've been wrong all this time about how to deal with the drug problem.
They'd have to concede/ admit defeat..at least to a point.
And a restructuring of all the years of policy making would have to take place. Legislators would damn near have to do back flips to turn the laws over in favor of legalizing marijuana across the board.
I'm still not clear on how it works in states where it's "legal". It seems to be more like semi-legal, even for those who are smoking it by prescription. I've been reading a little about it and find that people do still get busted sometimes, the burden of proof is on them, and they have to fight their way out of the legal system.
Whereby, if it's legal for them to smoke, and possess prescription marijuana, these things should never happen.
So, to me, that takes you right back to the "war" on drugs...and the dogged determination to wipe out drugs at all costs. Which is never going to happen, either. That's why it's such a waste of money.
Reply by beth063GOLD on February 5, 2009 at 10:28 AM
deedlerock wrote:For those of you who are for legalizing pot...
Do you think that there should be regulation of when, where, why etc? For example....should someone be allowed to smoke pot and then work? Which occupations? Assembly line? Surgery? Caring for children? Teaching? Or should they not be allowed to be under the influence on the job...similar to alcohol? Since smoking pot is less obvious than drinking, would you then agree that drug testing would be more necessary? What would be the repercussions down the road if pot became legal? And how much would be legal? Would there be a limit? A measurement? Also....since it's potency would then be controlled, we know that 'criminals' would still grow the ass-kicking pot out there currently. How would we know if someone has one of those or a legal reefer? I can tell you that I'm one of those ones who can barely be in the same room where it's being smoked without being sedated for hours afterwards...lol.
***BTW I'm the one whose (ex-stoner 70s) hubby was in ER Christmas Eve after being given a super-strength pot-laced brownie.***
Edit to add some things I forgot.
Asthma treated with SMOKING anything is ridiculous in my opinion. Asthma is a lung disease. How on earth could inhaling smoke of any kind be beneficial? Do you feel that smoking around people who are sensitive to the effects or smoke from marijuana should be limited or not allowed?
People take prescription drugs at alarming rates these days, Lisa. What's the difference between that, and the concept of making marijuana legal?
Marijuana gets a bad rap because it's the "hippy" drug.
A lot of the laws we see on the books against it today were conceived during the Viet Nam war era, when there were signs on restaurant and store fronts saying things like " NO HIPPIES ALLOWED" "Hippies use the side door"....etc.,...
It's about perception. And the perception of marijuana being such a terrible drug seems to mostly have been set up during those times because it was linked to being a worthless, anti-establishment-pot-smoking-hippy-freak.
Who's to say how many people are caring for our kids, doing surgeries, or putting our cars together on some other drug that could make them just as inattentive as pot?
The only difference being they have a prescription to use those drugs.
Sorry. But I'd much rather see a natural herb get legalized (and hopefully stay natural), than all of these many, many prescription drugs that are being so over-used, and over-prescribed.
Sleep aids on the market these days cause people to sleep-walk and do weird, dangerous things and not have a clue that they are doing them.
Then, because their brain's sleep center was disrupted during the sleep cycle, they wake in the morning not feeling so rested.
Do we want people like this filling those job descriptions you mention? I guess I wouldn't want that, if I had the choice. But we don't have the choice, because, as I've said, drug use of all kinds is rampant in this country.
I just like to believe that most people do use at least a little self control while at work.
It just so happens that I'm using Vicodin right now to stave off dental pain until I can get in for treatment because my dentist was all booked up for a month. I have to take it, or be in severe pain. But some days, I'd almost rather feel the pain, than to be this out of it.
Marijuana doesn't make me feel this way. And most people I've ever known who do smoke it don't smoke first thing in the morning before they go to work, nor take it with them to work. If you smoke the stuff all the time, you lose the ability to feel high from it anymore, so it's seen as a waste. Save it for after work...doing it at work is a buzz-kill. lol.
And yes, I do think that if pot is ever legalized, there definitely should be some regulations on how it's dispensed. If you're ever caught selling it, just as in any other drug situation, you should pay the price and do jail time. But you shouldn't have to lose your house, your car, your family and your freedom over a minimal amount, or parephenalia on your person such as can, and does happen these days. The laws are out of balance.
Reply by beth063GOLD on February 5, 2009 at 10:37 AM
All thise talk just makes me wish I could legally grow some plants, and share the experience of a decent, mellow high with all you nay-sayers out there...so you could see it's not the herb itself that's the issue.
The pure herb. No additives, no pre-conceieved notions of it's place in society.
Reply by WhiskeyGOLD on February 5, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Whiskey wants to wish all of you a wonderful thanksgiving!!!
Wow this really is a hot button topic!! Since I can only go my own experiences I will say that street pot is way different than the pot I buy. It smells different, burns different, and when cooking with it, it is bitter tasting and in some cases I can see where people would call this a hallucinogen. I have never personally hallucinated on pot but some say they have and I believe them but I am sure they were smoking pot that had chemicals laced into it. I do not buy street pot. My herb comes from state licensed growers for the express purpose of pain management. This does not mean I'm layin' out in recliner with a doobie in one hand and a remote in the other. What it means is if I need to be able to take the edge off of neuropathy or arthritis that things like Tylenol or Ibuprofen won't even touch then I smoke maybe a bowl (if that) before bed or if the pain has been chronic all day then I will use it in my food (at dinner time only). I do not add it to my husband's food (although he does have a caregiver's card for marijuana for the express purpose of keeping things legal) and no one else is allowed to use in my house. I do not drive or attempt to work when using because even though it is legal for me to indulge, it is not legal for me to go out and get stupid behind the wheel and I use it to relieve pain and allow me to rest, not work through pain. As I stated this only my experiences (and I did my share of being stupid back in the day) and street pot has changed so dramatically since then and gotten so much more dangerous. I can see both sides of the issue but I still think it should "legally" be used in some cases for pain management.
I had a boyfriend who is Paraplegic he has spasms in his legs sometimes that hurt like a biatch , the doctors prescribed him valum it didn't help worth crap , he kept having spasms to bad he always slipped out of his chair , how would you like to be that and be in class or at work and have that done how would you feel everybody looking at you , the only time he didn't have those spasms is when he smoke a little weed then he was right as right no spasms what so ever he was calm as a cucumber his didn't hurt from nothing his spasms never kicked in until the buzz an off and the weed wore off . and sometimes it works better than nerve pills too calms ya down real good , lol and where I lived in somerset while he was at school I always needed something to calm my behind down cause one time while i stayed at his mum's somebody tried to break in to our apartment scared the crap out of me when I came home and saw that , so I had to smoke a little sometimes to get to sleep at night . although now I don't smoke it no more my chest can't take it any more , clogs up my chest big time and what goes around any more ya can't trust it anyways they always mix it with other crap too so that's why I don't smoke it no more . not just cause it's illeagle but I can't handle the crap it gets mixed with lol *****************************************
probably just shocked the crap out of some of ya huh lol
beth063 wrote:All thise talk just makes me wish I could legally grow some plants, and share the experience of a decent, mellow high with all you nay-sayers out there...so you could see it's not the herb itself that's the issue.
The pure herb. No additives, no pre-conceieved notions of it's place in society.
There is still lots of good real weed out there that is not laced with stuff. Just saying..... ;)
I AM a nay sayer. However, I am also someone who has smoked it, grown it, sold it, etc. My judgment that it is better not to legalize it is just my personal take on it. I don't feel I have some stereotypical view about marijuana. I've peed on it to keep the deer away. I've hidden while helicopters were overhead. I've harvested useless wild pot, and top-of-the-line super pot. I won't go into it further. I feel well informed and just don't agree it would be better if it was legalized. But I am harsh! I also wish cigarettes and booze were harder to come by. I've just personally seen toooooo much death and ruin. Maybe it's too hard for me to judge it rationally. The majority seem to feel it should be legalized, and I respect that. What else can I do? I simply don't agree.
wizard_of_ice wrote:I could see some drugs like PCP or LSD doing that but not usually marijuanna. Although I have known many who have drunk beer and wrecked their car. Any time you drink or smoke you have to take on some responsibility for your behavior. Sad to hear of anyone going off the roof of a building.
I smoked it everyday when I was younger say between about 15 yrs old until about 30. Sometimes even in large amounts lol....I can say it does not cause delusions or hallucinations of any kind. Everyone is different , true, however I would rather take the risks myself and be responsible for my own actions than have the government babysit me and control my life and tell me what I can and cannot do. It is just not the job of the government to protect me from myself.
redvixen wrote:
wizard_of_ice wrote:and by the way it really does not help for pain but does for nausea. It does however make one lazy and makes simple things more interesting.
HAHA.....WIZ!
I remember now Wiz, that day you refused the lift cause you was so unsure which direction you were going :)
wizard_of_ice wrote:Marijuana is very far from being an hallucinigen. Any one who claims this is so is either ignorant or using the statement as a propaganda tool. I remember in grade school in the 60's they showed us all a film where a guy smoked it and looked in a mirror and a monster came out of it at him. This type of intentional lie is likely the cause of other more dangerous drugs being used as people stop beleiving something is dangerous because they have been lied to so much. Once you realize the government and other authority figures are intentionally lying to us to control you it is hard to take anything they tell us seriously.
and as far as inducing "psychosis" in "some" people....well hamburgers can too...not very likely for either but just as possible.
The only harm caused by marijuana is the harm done by the governments who attempt to ban it. It is so silly to take someone who smoked or otherwise ingested a simple weed and put them in jail.
And in truth...it isn't any of the governments business anyway.
That is but YOUR opinion.
Marijuana is classified as a mild hallucigen whether you want to accept that or not. Are you are an expert on drug classification? And able to debunk experts who have done studies and made a link to possible psychosis being triggered with use of marijuana? I was just offering further information for people to ponder.
I am the one who mentioned it being a hallucinagen and you posted that anyone who says this is either ignorant or using the statement as a propaganda tool. I was just passing along information that I've been taught since I was in high school and read ever since. And I'd rather listen to experts than one person's opinion who has only good experiences with pot. Because I know that doesn't reflect everyone's experience. I know tons of people who smoke regularly, it's everywhere around here. And that's good for them, they relax after work. I don't judge them. But I know someone who got so addicted to it, it almost ruined their life. Not so good for them. This person could not control their use.
And I happen to think alcohol is alot worse, Mexi-can. Nothing worse than a mean stinking drunk. But I've seen peeps who were using pot excessively and chronically and they were really annoying too. Going around wearing sunglasses during the day to hide their bloodshot eyes trying to function and not doing it a very good job of it at all.
edit to add: I don't think people should be thrown in jail for using pot, it's not done around here really, just for the peeps who have large grow-ops in their homes.
no not an expert in drug classifications but I do know BS when I hear it!
*sigh* haven't smoked since i left the homeland.. Netherlands.. where it was/is still legal to have on you for personal use, buy it in a shop, pick what ya want, and have a happy day, i think alcohol is worse then pot, but pot and i disagreed, so no pot for me, i preferred hashies?(sp?) when i lived there. hve no clue about the it 's numbing powers on pain, cause i was young and didn't have pain, all i know is it made me laugh a lot!!!:D
Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 1:28 AM
walkingstick wrote:
beth063 wrote:All thise talk just makes me wish I could legally grow some plants, and share the experience of a decent, mellow high with all you nay-sayers out there...so you could see it's not the herb itself that's the issue.
The pure herb. No additives, no pre-conceieved notions of it's place in society.
There is still lots of good real weed out there that is not laced with stuff. Just saying..... ;)
lol. I know that. Wish I could have been finding some while I was still in the market for it, though. :P
Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 1:48 AM
deedlerock wrote:I AM a nay sayer. However, I am also someone who has smoked it, grown it, sold it, etc. My judgment that it is better not to legalize it is just my personal take on it. I don't feel I have some stereotypical view about marijuana. I've peed on it to keep the deer away. I've hidden while helicopters were overhead. I've harvested useless wild pot, and top-of-the-line super pot. I won't go into it further. I feel well informed and just don't agree it would be better if it was legalized. But I am harsh! I also wish cigarettes and booze were harder to come by. I've just personally seen toooooo much death and ruin. Maybe it's too hard for me to judge it rationally. The majority seem to feel it should be legalized, and I respect that. What else can I do? I simply don't agree.
lol @ peed on it. So, that was YOU, huh?
I've seen my share of death and ruin, too, Lisa. But never associated with just weed. Alcohol was always involved, and usually some other substance, like meth/cocaine/crack and even just plain ol' speed back in the day.
I've ridden with bikers, known drug dealers who'd sooner kill you than to let you go on owing them money, seen my niece lose her husband, two boyfriends, and her 4 kids to drugs (courts took them away from her because she was unfit), and lost friends to car accidents where alcohol was always involved. I testified in court on behalf of a guy who I witnessed get beat half to death by a guy who was drunk.
But I've partied all of my adult life until the last 10 years when I started to "turn over a new leaf" (gawd, how cliche' that sounds in my head), and anytime I've ever smoked just pot with friends, it was a happy time, no drama, no violence...just mellow fun, us laughing our butts off at stupid things, getting the munchies, being artistic, etc.,...that's IT.
I never lost track of where I parked my car when I was just high on pot. Can't say the same for those nights I drank too much.
Then people started putting other crap in the herb, and ruined it. So, I've given it up..for the most part. :)
I'm not going to deny a friend's offer if they wanna smoke a little doobage with me. But it only happens like that about once, maybe twice a year. At most.
Honestly, I think it must just boil right down to a person's chemical makeup in the first place as to how it'll affect you. Or, maybe what's already in the psyche...?
If you're prone to get paranoid after getting high, is it maybe because you have something to be paranoid about, and the drug just enhances that feeling..?? who knows.
I'm no X-spurt. Just a mild-mannered reforming user.
deedlerock wrote:I AM a nay sayer. However, I am also someone who has smoked it, grown it, sold it, etc. My judgment that it is better not to legalize it is just my personal take on it. I don't feel I have some stereotypical view about marijuana. I've peed on it to keep the deer away. I've hidden while helicopters were overhead. I've harvested useless wild pot, and top-of-the-line super pot. I won't go into it further. I feel well informed and just don't agree it would be better if it was legalized. But I am harsh! I also wish cigarettes and booze were harder to come by. I've just personally seen toooooo much death and ruin. Maybe it's too hard for me to judge it rationally. The majority seem to feel it should be legalized, and I respect that. What else can I do? I simply don't agree.
lol @ peed on it. So, that was YOU, huh?
I've seen my share of death and ruin, too, Lisa. But never associated with just weed. Alcohol was always involved, and usually some other substance, like meth/cocaine/crack and even just plain ol' speed back in the day.
I've ridden with bikers, known drug dealers who'd sooner kill you than to let you go on owing them money, seen my niece lose her husband, two boyfriends, and her 4 kids to drugs (courts took them away from her because she was unfit), and lost friends to car accidents where alcohol was always involved. I testified in court on behalf of a guy who I witnessed get beat half to death by a guy who was drunk.
But I've partied all of my adult life until the last 10 years when I started to "turn over a new leaf" (gawd, how cliche' that sounds in my head), and anytime I've ever smoked just pot with friends, it was a happy time, no drama, no violence...just mellow fun, us laughing our butts off at stupid things, getting the munchies, being artistic, etc.,...that's IT.
I never lost track of where I parked my car when I was just high on pot. Can't say the same for those nights I drank too much.
Then people started putting other crap in the herb, and ruined it. So, I've given it up..for the most part. :)
I'm not going to deny a friend's offer if they wanna smoke a little doobage with me. But it only happens like that about once, maybe twice a year. At most.
Honestly, I think it must just boil right down to a person's chemical makeup in the first place as to how it'll affect you. Or, maybe what's already in the psyche...?
If you're prone to get paranoid after getting high, is it maybe because you have something to be paranoid about, and the drug just enhances that feeling..?? who knows.
I'm no X-spurt. Just a mild-mannered reforming user.
I get high on singing now. :)
Gonna love the new Bethtionary folks.... doobage x-spurt ;p
I only peed on my own. Actually now thinking back, we peed in jars and placed them all around the crop. Didn't help. Husband's ex-wife stole most of it the day before harvest. But we did manage to harvest enough tops to buy his 47 Indian with gold krugerands. Nevamind.
Anyways...yes. I see your point about the happy times with friends. They're probably harmless except for the smoke in your lungs part. My brother-in-law had a swinging roach clip hooked to the center of his den ceiling. We'd all sit in there after passing through the orange beads onto the 3" long brown shag carpet and they'd all smoke...then he'd clip it on and sail it to the next person. LOL...the funny thing is the room was like 12X12. Way too far to reach to the next person 3 ft away.
I'm one of those people it sedates and creates claustrophobia in...tunnel vision. I hate its effects on me. Not really paranoia..although if I was stoned and walking in a mall yeah I'd probably be in trouble. But I never coulda done that because I couldn't even pick myself up. And it never bothered me at (the possibility of getting busted) all to be in the car with a thick haze going down the freeway with friends. Hey Dave! Dave's not home! :-D
Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 11:36 AM
I should have been clearer with my statement about the paranoia thing. The "you" in the sentence isn't YOU ...Lisa.
Just any "you". Anyone. lol.
lol. Good ol' Cheech & Chong. You know, Tommy Chong is STILL in prison for selling paraphenalia. That's the kind of thing I'd like to see change. He's being used as an example, and it's not right.
Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 11:39 AM
We used to make roach clips with leather strips, and feathers, and wear them in our hair. They made nice "barretts", and were conveniently right there when you needed one. lol.
beth063 wrote:I should have been clearer with my statement about the paranoia thing. The "you" in the sentence isn't YOU ...Lisa.
Just any "you". Anyone. lol.
lol. Good ol' Cheech & Chong. You know, Tommy Chong is STILL in prison for selling paraphenalia. That's the kind of thing I'd like to see change. He's being used as an example, and it's not right.
Yes I got that Beth! :-) I didn't know about Tommy Chong. Awwww. Yes I'd agree he's a perfect choice to use for this...what a bunch of crap. Love Tommy...always thought he was cute, too. Heh.
beth063 wrote:We used to make roach clips with leather strips, and feathers, and wear them in our hair. They made nice "barretts", and were conveniently right there when you needed one. lol.
I loved those...we wore'em whether or not we smoked. And everyone had one hangin' on the rear-view mirror. :-) My husband still has his cool one that's a pheasant feather....and his original stash box. Did I mention my little Keep On Truckin dude yet? I think I did...he was a coffee table conversation piece. You stuck the doobie in his mouth, filled him up with water and toked from a long tube. He was so cute. Probably worth a good amount by now. Dunno where he went. :-(
Reply by rickoshay11 on February 8, 2009 at 8:18 PM
I think it should be legal...but our gov makes to much off of it....for a plant that is not allowed in the country..is out #1 crop..and the government grows it...for years you couldnt test it to find cures...thanks to drug companies
Reply by MissLindaGOLD on February 9, 2009 at 8:19 PM
OH MY GOD! I usually do not get involved with stuff like this but....when something tweeks your melon....surf the archives of alcohol and weed...dude..if weed made you sex up some chic and you regret it...shame on you..have you ever met that mistake?And if so..i hope they never read this.The only reason it's not legal is because the government can not make any money...alcohol on the other hand..they make their share and makes you do even more stupid shit. sorry...just my opinion..have you ever heard of any one dying of weed poisoning?Help me Ghostwriter!!!!
BobAmodeo wrote:Hi Mexi-can, I to think it does have some benifical uses in pain and sickness,but there is such a slippery slope,that it gets into the hands of so many people that aren't sick...I've made many a stupid decision,while feeling I was in such a great and enlightened head by buying things I shouldn't have,like cars etc....Many a man has awakened the next morning,and regretted what took place that past night,and wound up paying child support for 21 years!!!(it happens all the time) Many Blessings Mexi-can,Bob
I quit around a year ago, after keeping a stash of damn good skunkish around for the better part of 18 years.
I'm over it for one. Sick of the munchies.... ;)
However, I don't see the reason that alcohol is legal and weed isn't and have never heard a convincing argument to support the double standard.
The 'gateway' crap is way old. I think the 'gateway' aspect of marijuana only comes into play because you've then crossed a line and done something illegal.
Like drinking underage. Or driving under the influence. Or being in a fight. Or tagging a building. etc, etc, etc.
UncleDave wrote:Legal for medicinal purposes, at LEAST.
I quit around a year ago, after keeping a stash of damn good skunkish around for the better part of 18 years.
I'm over it for one. Sick of the munchies.... ;)
However, I don't see the reason that alcohol is legal and weed isn't and have never heard a convincing argument to support the double standard.
The 'gateway' crap is way old. I think the 'gateway' aspect of marijuana only comes into play because you've then crossed a line and done something illegal.
Like drinking underage. Or driving under the influence. Or being in a fight. Or tagging a building. etc, etc, etc.
Reply by rickoshay11 on February 12, 2009 at 8:19 PM
"Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica." - Abraham Lincoln (from a letter written by Lincoln during his presidency to the head of the Hohner Harmonica Company in Germany)
Reply by Jacqui on February 4, 2009 at 4:56 PM
Beth, Wizard & Sammy, you all made my point. It affects everyone differently. You all may have had no side effects, but how many can honestly say that?
By the way, this happened in Jamaica some years ago, and I'd hazard a guess that it was not laced with anything....PCP/LSD was not very well known then, and I doubt those boys could have been able to afford it anyway. In addition, and I say this in all seriousness, unfortunately, weed smoking Jamaicans take the quality of their weed seriously, (I'm told we have the best quality there), they'd never add stuff to it. At least, not back then.
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Reply by Jacqui on February 4, 2009 at 4:57 PM
Pat, no smoking of anything for you! ;-)
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Reply by mexi-can on February 4, 2009 at 5:31 PM
I have been around for a long time and I do agree that Marijuana is just a mellow drug that will eventually not be enough for some people and they will move to harder things. Same as with beer after a while you need to have some of that harder liquor, but once again I know Marijuana isn't a hullucination drug. I know that joint was laced with either LSD or PCP and or even Formaldihyde also know as tied stick.All of my friends when back in the day just were a little more enhanced in the way they percieved things or thought. Noone ever had a bad effect. Maybe wanting to overdose on cheeseburgers. I understand the things that might concern some people, like freaking out but it is not from MArijuana alone. I smoked weed for about 20 years so I do agree it is addicting, that I know for sure.I couldn't quit no matter how I tried. I know Marijuana is just like liquor, It just mellows you out. I am a professional on this topic. I have crossed it from Mexico to here. I have drenched it in pcp lsd and formaldihyde, I have rolled about more that 100,000 joints in my life time, I have smoked with first timers and veterens, I can still grow the best tasting slowest burning weed out there,so yes I am a very knowlegable person on this topic. Although I've been smoke free for 15 years now and counting.
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Reply by redvixenGOLD on February 4, 2009 at 5:34 PM
I remember now Wiz, that day you refused the lift cause you was so unsure which direction you were going :)
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 4, 2009 at 6:31 PM
LOL!!^
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Reply by mexi-can on February 4, 2009 at 7:52 PM
I know Marijuana is just like liquor, It just mellows you out. I am a professional on this topic.
Sorry It is not like liquor. Too much liquor and you might hurt somebody in the worst way. Sorry for that mistake.
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Reply by MishamayCOMMUNITY-SUPPORT on February 4, 2009 at 8:25 PM
That is but YOUR opinion.
Marijuana is classified as a mild hallucigen whether you want to accept that or not. Are you are an expert on drug classification? And able to debunk experts who have done studies and made a link to possible psychosis being triggered with use of marijuana? I was just offering further information for people to ponder.
I am the one who mentioned it being a hallucinagen and you posted that anyone who says this is either ignorant or using the statement as a propaganda tool. I was just passing along information that I've been taught since I was in high school and read ever since. And I'd rather listen to experts than one person's opinion who has only good experiences with pot. Because I know that doesn't reflect everyone's experience. I know tons of people who smoke regularly, it's everywhere around here. And that's good for them, they relax after work. I don't judge them. But I know someone who got so addicted to it, it almost ruined their life. Not so good for them. This person could not control their use.
And I happen to think alcohol is alot worse, Mexi-can. Nothing worse than a mean stinking drunk. But I've seen peeps who were using pot excessively and chronically and they were really annoying too. Going around wearing sunglasses during the day to hide their bloodshot eyes trying to function and not doing it a very good job of it at all.
edit to add: I don't think people should be thrown in jail for using pot, it's not done around here really, just for the peeps who have large grow-ops in their homes.
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Reply by rokin1 on February 4, 2009 at 8:40 PM
well i seen it. smelled it .. lit it..
but i didn't inhale it!!! so
ok i lied!!!i for one did not survie the late sixtys early seventy's without indulging,
i've seen refer madness too!! lmao...
don't recall a single life threatning situation due to it amoung anyone i ever knew..
people do get killed over it sure .and i think if it was legal
maybee that number whatever it is would go down.
i also believe that apathy in an already apathetic society would go up!
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Reply by redneck_country_girl on February 4, 2009 at 9:29 PM
legalize it yea right then the goverment would not get a profit from the busts....that isnt gonna happen
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 5, 2009 at 9:40 AM
For those of you who are for legalizing pot...
Do you think that there should be regulation of when, where, why etc? For example....should someone be allowed to smoke pot and then work? Which occupations? Assembly line? Surgery? Caring for children? Teaching? Or should they not be allowed to be under the influence on the job...similar to alcohol? Since smoking pot is less obvious than drinking, would you then agree that drug testing would be more necessary? What would be the repercussions down the road if pot became legal? And how much would be legal? Would there be a limit? A measurement? Also....since it's potency would then be controlled, we know that 'criminals' would still grow the ass-kicking pot out there currently. How would we know if someone has one of those or a legal reefer? I can tell you that I'm one of those ones who can barely be in the same room where it's being smoked without being sedated for hours afterwards...lol.
***BTW I'm the one whose (ex-stoner 70s) hubby was in ER Christmas Eve after being given a super-strength pot-laced brownie.***
Edit to add some things I forgot.
Asthma treated with SMOKING anything is ridiculous in my opinion. Asthma is a lung disease. How on earth could inhaling smoke of any kind be beneficial? Do you feel that smoking around people who are sensitive to the effects or smoke from marijuana should be limited or not allowed?
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 5, 2009 at 9:56 AM
Exactly.
And that is why ...at least one of the main reasons why it hasn't happened. Another would probably be the idea that it would probably make a lot of people look pretty stupid at this point because they've been wrong all this time about how to deal with the drug problem.
They'd have to concede/ admit defeat..at least to a point.
And a restructuring of all the years of policy making would have to take place. Legislators would damn near have to do back flips to turn the laws over in favor of legalizing marijuana across the board.
I'm still not clear on how it works in states where it's "legal". It seems to be more like semi-legal, even for those who are smoking it by prescription. I've been reading a little about it and find that people do still get busted sometimes, the burden of proof is on them, and they have to fight their way out of the legal system.
Whereby, if it's legal for them to smoke, and possess prescription marijuana, these things should never happen.
So, to me, that takes you right back to the "war" on drugs...and the dogged determination to wipe out drugs at all costs. Which is never going to happen, either. That's why it's such a waste of money.
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 5, 2009 at 10:28 AM
People take prescription drugs at alarming rates these days, Lisa. What's the difference between that, and the concept of making marijuana legal?
Marijuana gets a bad rap because it's the "hippy" drug.
A lot of the laws we see on the books against it today were conceived during the Viet Nam war era, when there were signs on restaurant and store fronts saying things like " NO HIPPIES ALLOWED" "Hippies use the side door"....etc.,...
It's about perception. And the perception of marijuana being such a terrible drug seems to mostly have been set up during those times because it was linked to being a worthless, anti-establishment-pot-smoking-hippy-freak.
Who's to say how many people are caring for our kids, doing surgeries, or putting our cars together on some other drug that could make them just as inattentive as pot?
The only difference being they have a prescription to use those drugs.
Sorry. But I'd much rather see a natural herb get legalized (and hopefully stay natural), than all of these many, many prescription drugs that are being so over-used, and over-prescribed.
Sleep aids on the market these days cause people to sleep-walk and do weird, dangerous things and not have a clue that they are doing them.
Then, because their brain's sleep center was disrupted during the sleep cycle, they wake in the morning not feeling so rested.
Do we want people like this filling those job descriptions you mention? I guess I wouldn't want that, if I had the choice. But we don't have the choice, because, as I've said, drug use of all kinds is rampant in this country.
I just like to believe that most people do use at least a little self control while at work.
It just so happens that I'm using Vicodin right now to stave off dental pain until I can get in for treatment because my dentist was all booked up for a month. I have to take it, or be in severe pain. But some days, I'd almost rather feel the pain, than to be this out of it.
Marijuana doesn't make me feel this way. And most people I've ever known who do smoke it don't smoke first thing in the morning before they go to work, nor take it with them to work. If you smoke the stuff all the time, you lose the ability to feel high from it anymore, so it's seen as a waste. Save it for after work...doing it at work is a buzz-kill. lol.
And yes, I do think that if pot is ever legalized, there definitely should be some regulations on how it's dispensed. If you're ever caught selling it, just as in any other drug situation, you should pay the price and do jail time. But you shouldn't have to lose your house, your car, your family and your freedom over a minimal amount, or parephenalia on your person such as can, and does happen these days. The laws are out of balance.
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 5, 2009 at 10:37 AM
All thise talk just makes me wish I could legally grow some plants, and share the experience of a decent, mellow high with all you nay-sayers out there...so you could see it's not the herb itself that's the issue.
The pure herb. No additives, no pre-conceieved notions of it's place in society.
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Reply by WhiskeyGOLD on February 5, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Whiskey wants to wish all of you a wonderful thanksgiving!!!Wow this really is a hot button topic!! Since I can only go my own experiences I will say that street pot is way different than the pot I buy. It smells different, burns different, and when cooking with it, it is bitter tasting and in some cases I can see where people would call this a hallucinogen. I have never personally hallucinated on pot but some say they have and I believe them but I am sure they were smoking pot that had chemicals laced into it. I do not buy street pot. My herb comes from state licensed growers for the express purpose of pain management. This does not mean I'm layin' out in recliner with a doobie in one hand and a remote in the other. What it means is if I need to be able to take the edge off of neuropathy or arthritis that things like Tylenol or Ibuprofen won't even touch then I smoke maybe a bowl (if that) before bed or if the pain has been chronic all day then I will use it in my food (at dinner time only). I do not add it to my husband's food (although he does have a caregiver's card for marijuana for the express purpose of keeping things legal) and no one else is allowed to use in my house. I do not drive or attempt to work when using because even though it is legal for me to indulge, it is not legal for me to go out and get stupid behind the wheel and I use it to relieve pain and allow me to rest, not work through pain.
As I stated this only my experiences (and I did my share of being stupid back in the day) and street pot has changed so dramatically since then and gotten so much more dangerous. I can see both sides of the issue but I still think it should "legally" be used in some cases for pain management.
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Reply by LadyMatikaPATRON on February 5, 2009 at 2:34 PM
LadyMatika happy thanksgiving everybody ;)I had a boyfriend who is Paraplegic he has spasms in his legs sometimes that hurt like a biatch , the doctors prescribed him valum it didn't help worth crap , he kept having spasms to bad he always slipped out of his chair , how would you like to be that and be in class or at work and have that done how would you feel everybody looking at you , the only time he didn't have those spasms is when he smoke a little weed then he was right as right no spasms what so ever he was calm as a cucumber his didn't hurt from nothing his spasms never kicked in until the buzz an off and the weed wore off .
and sometimes it works better than nerve pills too
calms ya down real good , lol
and where I lived in somerset while he was at school I always needed something to calm my behind down cause one time while i stayed at his mum's somebody tried to break in to our apartment scared the crap out of me when I came home and saw that , so I had to smoke a little sometimes to get to sleep at night .
although now I don't smoke it no more
my chest can't take it any more , clogs up my chest big time and what goes around any more ya can't trust it anyways they always mix it with other crap too so that's why I don't smoke it no more .
not just cause it's illeagle but I can't handle the crap it gets mixed with lol
*****************************************
probably just shocked the crap out of some of ya huh lol
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Reply by walkingstickGOLD on February 5, 2009 at 2:39 PM
walkingstick ,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,..
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 7, 2009 at 4:58 PM
flagging
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Reply by walkingstickGOLD on February 7, 2009 at 6:26 PM
walkingstick ,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.There is still lots of good real weed out there that is not laced with stuff. Just saying..... ;)
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 7, 2009 at 9:05 PM
I AM a nay sayer. However, I am also someone who has smoked it, grown it, sold it, etc. My judgment that it is better not to legalize it is just my personal take on it. I don't feel I have some stereotypical view about marijuana. I've peed on it to keep the deer away. I've hidden while helicopters were overhead. I've harvested useless wild pot, and top-of-the-line super pot. I won't go into it further. I feel well informed and just don't agree it would be better if it was legalized. But I am harsh! I also wish cigarettes and booze were harder to come by. I've just personally seen toooooo much death and ruin. Maybe it's too hard for me to judge it rationally. The majority seem to feel it should be legalized, and I respect that. What else can I do? I simply don't agree.
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Reply by JennaNicoleGOLD on February 7, 2009 at 9:19 PM
interesting topic.....
*closes door and runs away*
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 7, 2009 at 9:41 PM
Wait! Medical use...yes, in nonsmoking form. Recreational use. Nope.
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Reply by wizard_of_iceGOLD on February 7, 2009 at 11:38 PM
I chose both!
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Reply by wizard_of_iceGOLD on February 7, 2009 at 11:40 PM
no not an expert in drug classifications but I do know BS when I hear it!
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Reply by TJ_CGOLD on February 7, 2009 at 11:52 PM
TJ_C loving my peeps!!!! mwaaah!!!!!!!*sigh* haven't smoked since i left the homeland.. Netherlands..
where it was/is still legal to have on you for personal use, buy it in a shop, pick what ya want, and have a happy day, i think alcohol is worse then pot, but pot and i disagreed, so no pot for me, i preferred hashies?(sp?) when i lived there. hve no clue about the it 's numbing powers on pain, cause i was young and didn't have pain, all i know is it made me laugh a lot!!!:D
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 1:28 AM
lol. I know that. Wish I could have been finding some while I was still in the market for it, though. :P
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 1:48 AM
lol @ peed on it. So, that was YOU, huh?
I've seen my share of death and ruin, too, Lisa. But never associated with just weed. Alcohol was always involved, and usually some other substance, like meth/cocaine/crack and even just plain ol' speed back in the day.
I've ridden with bikers, known drug dealers who'd sooner kill you than to let you go on owing them money, seen my niece lose her husband, two boyfriends, and her 4 kids to drugs (courts took them away from her because she was unfit), and lost friends to car accidents where alcohol was always involved. I testified in court on behalf of a guy who I witnessed get beat half to death by a guy who was drunk.
But I've partied all of my adult life until the last 10 years when I started to "turn over a new leaf" (gawd, how cliche' that sounds in my head), and anytime I've ever smoked just pot with friends, it was a happy time, no drama, no violence...just mellow fun, us laughing our butts off at stupid things, getting the munchies, being artistic, etc.,...that's IT.
I never lost track of where I parked my car when I was just high on pot. Can't say the same for those nights I drank too much.
Then people started putting other crap in the herb, and ruined it. So, I've given it up..for the most part. :)
I'm not going to deny a friend's offer if they wanna smoke a little doobage with me. But it only happens like that about once, maybe twice a year. At most.
Honestly, I think it must just boil right down to a person's chemical makeup in the first place as to how it'll affect you. Or, maybe what's already in the psyche...?
If you're prone to get paranoid after getting high, is it maybe because you have something to be paranoid about, and the drug just enhances that feeling..?? who knows.
I'm no X-spurt. Just a mild-mannered reforming user.
I get high on singing now. :)
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 8, 2009 at 11:23 AM
Gonna love the new Bethtionary folks....
doobage
x-spurt
;p
I only peed on my own. Actually now thinking back, we peed in jars and placed them all around the crop. Didn't help. Husband's ex-wife stole most of it the day before harvest. But we did manage to harvest enough tops to buy his 47 Indian with gold krugerands. Nevamind.
Anyways...yes. I see your point about the happy times with friends. They're probably harmless except for the smoke in your lungs part. My brother-in-law had a swinging roach clip hooked to the center of his den ceiling. We'd all sit in there after passing through the orange beads onto the 3" long brown shag carpet and they'd all smoke...then he'd clip it on and sail it to the next person. LOL...the funny thing is the room was like 12X12. Way too far to reach to the next person 3 ft away.
I'm one of those people it sedates and creates claustrophobia in...tunnel vision. I hate its effects on me. Not really paranoia..although if I was stoned and walking in a mall yeah I'd probably be in trouble. But I never coulda done that because I couldn't even pick myself up. And it never bothered me at (the possibility of getting busted) all to be in the car with a thick haze going down the freeway with friends. Hey Dave! Dave's not home! :-D
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 11:36 AM
I should have been clearer with my statement about the paranoia thing. The "you" in the sentence isn't YOU ...Lisa.
Just any "you". Anyone. lol.
lol. Good ol' Cheech & Chong. You know, Tommy Chong is STILL in prison for selling paraphenalia. That's the kind of thing I'd like to see change. He's being used as an example, and it's not right.
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 11:39 AM
We used to make roach clips with leather strips, and feathers, and wear them in our hair. They made nice "barretts", and were conveniently right there when you needed one. lol.
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Reply by mexi-can on February 8, 2009 at 11:45 AM
what do we need to get this passed through congress?
I vote
YEAUH! CRUNK STYLE...LOL
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 8, 2009 at 12:02 PM
Yes I got that Beth! :-) I didn't know about Tommy Chong. Awwww. Yes I'd agree he's a perfect choice to use for this...what a bunch of crap. Love Tommy...always thought he was cute, too. Heh.
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 8, 2009 at 12:07 PM
I loved those...we wore'em whether or not we smoked. And everyone had one hangin' on the rear-view mirror. :-) My husband still has his cool one that's a pheasant feather....and his original stash box. Did I mention my little Keep On Truckin dude yet? I think I did...he was a coffee table conversation piece. You stuck the doobie in his mouth, filled him up with water and toked from a long tube. He was so cute. Probably worth a good amount by now. Dunno where he went. :-(
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 6:54 PM
I drew that dude ^ on the back of my jean jacket when I was 12. lol
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Reply by beth063GOLD on February 8, 2009 at 6:56 PM
Start a petition! Get with N.O.R.M.L!
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Reply by iffypresleyGOLD on February 8, 2009 at 7:21 PM
never heard of mari..
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Reply by rickoshay11 on February 8, 2009 at 8:18 PM
I think it should be legal...but our gov makes to much off of it....for a plant that is not allowed in the country..is out #1 crop..and the government grows it...for years you couldnt test it to find cures...thanks to drug companies
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 8, 2009 at 9:34 PM
What marijuana leaves in your lungs...
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/716098/what_marijuana_leaves_in_your_lungs/
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 8, 2009 at 9:35 PM
snicker
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 8, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Which of these things do you believe, disbelieve, feel concern about, or do you feel no concern at all?
http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html
Do you think the information is factual? nothing to be concerned about? All objective ears here. Please elaborate. I want to learn! Thanks!
Oh...also...does any of it influence your opinion on whether or not pot should be legalized? For medication only? For personal use?
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Reply by rickoshay11 on February 9, 2009 at 6:22 PM
http://norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4393
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Reply by rickoshay11 on February 9, 2009 at 6:34 PM
http://www.nih.gov/news/medmarijuana/MedicalMarijuana.htm
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Reply by MissLindaGOLD on February 9, 2009 at 8:19 PM
OH MY GOD! I usually do not get involved with stuff like this but....when something tweeks your melon....surf the archives of alcohol and weed...dude..if weed made you sex up some chic and you regret it...shame on you..have you ever met that mistake?And if so..i hope they never read this.The only reason it's not legal is because the government can not make any money...alcohol on the other hand..they make their share and makes you do even more stupid shit. sorry...just my opinion..have you ever heard of any one dying of weed poisoning?Help me Ghostwriter!!!!
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Reply by MissLindaGOLD on February 9, 2009 at 8:30 PM
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Reply by MissLindaGOLD on February 9, 2009 at 8:37 PM
BAAAHAHAAA!!!
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Reply by UncleDavePATRON on February 9, 2009 at 8:50 PM
Legal for medicinal purposes, at LEAST.
I quit around a year ago, after keeping a stash of damn good skunkish around for the better part of 18 years.
I'm over it for one. Sick of the munchies.... ;)
However, I don't see the reason that alcohol is legal and weed isn't and have never heard a convincing argument to support the double standard.
The 'gateway' crap is way old. I think the 'gateway' aspect of marijuana only comes into play because you've then crossed a line and done something illegal.
Like drinking underage. Or driving under the influence. Or being in a fight. Or tagging a building. etc, etc, etc.
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Reply by walkingstickGOLD on February 9, 2009 at 8:55 PM
walkingstick ,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I love it!
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Reply by UncleDavePATRON on February 9, 2009 at 8:56 PM
I think that site only raises more questions. And points out how stunted the research has been on it due to it's classification.
'one study' 'some examples' 'in some cases' lalalalalalalala...
Keeping real research to a minimum has kept real decisions from being made.
(Again, I don't CARE if it's legalized. I'm working on my beer belly now. Muah-hah-haaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh.....)
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 9, 2009 at 9:29 PM
LOL LOL you people are all soooooooo funny! I loves ya!
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Reply by deedlerockGOLD on February 9, 2009 at 9:30 PM
That all makes complete sense.
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Reply by rickoshay11 on February 12, 2009 at 8:19 PM
"Two of my favorite things are sitting on my front porch smoking a pipe of sweet hemp, and playing my Hohner harmonica." - Abraham Lincoln (from a letter written by Lincoln during his presidency to the head of the Hohner Harmonica Company in Germany)
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