I'VE BEEN SUBSTITUTING

this is really way off topic of karaoke lol

its sad that not many kid's these day have been taught RESPECT
lol who ever did that made my eyes water hahaha ur quickkkkk

Edited on May 14, 2008 at 10:17 PM Quote

Binky- wrote:
lol who ever did that made my eyes water hahaha ur quickkkkk

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Hi mexi-can. I will step up to the plate here. I think that the larger problem is that children are not being taught Respect at home. No, I don't want some stranger (to me) hitting my child, however I have gotten many telephone calls from the school, because they know that I am one of those parents who realize that my child is not perfect and more than capable of being rude. They also know that this is not something that I approve of and it will be dealt with when they get home.

My child has had to write letters of apology to the teacher he offended, and read it in front of the class (My punishment, not the schools). I have one child who wrote 100 times "It is not proper to be disrespectful and disruptive in school and I will not be that way any more). This had to be hand delivered by him to the principal (My punishment, not the schools). It has even been said by some of the teachers that they would not give my children a punishment that they deserved due to me taking care of it at home. I insisted the punishment be given!

If we had more parents who cared, then we would have less rude children. Now with that said, I have two teenage boys, who by nature and genetics (lol) can be total smartys, but they do not do it at school anymore to any severe extent because they do not want the embarrassment of having to apologize as publicly as they messed up.

Yes, it is sad, children having children, but it does not always turn out that those are the "bad" parents. I had my first son at age seventeen and my second at nineteen. I have read a ton of books and have the good sense to listen to those older and wiser than me when it comes to advice on raising children.

I do tell my children not to let anyone push them around; however they are also told not to push anyone else around either and I think that is a lesson many children are not getting.

I do not think that a teacher spanking a child is the right answer, but I do think that more parents need to step up and realize that they need to be a parent first and a friend second. As far as the battlefield, I am there in the trenches with you. I have many children that will come and stay at my house and when their parents ask "How was Jr." I can honestly tell them great and they look at me as if I were an alien and say "Well he is always so hateful and rude to me." and I tell them I never have any trouble. My kids friends know that I will love them and do anything I can for them, BUT I expect them to respect me, and I have been lucky, they do. To the teachers, I say call the parents, if that does not do it, make them do something that will embarrass them such as writing sentences or public apologies, then they don't look so cool to their friends.

Sorry for the book.

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<----Is all for spanking!!!

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mexi-can wrote:MAN, KIDS THESE DAYS ARE SO DISRESPECTFUL TO THE TEACHERS.
NOW -A -DAYS, YOU CAN'T SPANK 'EM EVEN IF THEIR BEING LITTLE BASTARDS... THEY CAN CUSS YOU OUT AND THE PRINCIPLE WILL TELL THEM NOT TO DO IT AGAIN.ONE PARENT ASKED ME WHY DID I GIVE HER SON AN "F", I TOLD HER ( IN MY MIND)BECAUSE THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "G" , YOUR SON IS SO DUMB.....BUT STILL MY FACIAL EXPRESSIONS SAID IT ALL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK.....WE NEED TO BRING BACK SPANKING AT THE TEACHER LEVEL BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONES THAT ARE IN THE BATTLE FIELD. SOME PARENTS TELL THEIR KIDS NOT TO LET ANYONE PUSH THEM AROUND, BUT IT IS THEM LITTLE TROUBLE MAKERS THAT'S DOING ALL THE PUSHING.
AM I WRONG TO FEEL LIKE THIS. PLEASE HELP THE TEACHERS AND RESPOND...

The children don't need spankings. Instilling fear has never been an effective way to get kids to want to be productive members of society, and that's our goals as fellow teachers, right? If...as a substitute...you are feeling that kind of angst, you might need a break. Subs take the brunt of every prank kids can come up with, so I do feel for you.

If you truly believe that bodily harm is in order, I think you should consider changing occupations. I'm not trying to be mean or anything. Just..as a fellow teacher, it's scary to think that some teachers might actually want to HURT the children to get them to tow the line. I have 5 grandkids in school, and anyone that thinks it would be okay to STRIKE one of them will have ME to reckon with in a BIG way.

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one likely has absolutely nothing to do with the other, but when i was in school, back in the bad old days, we got our butts whipped if we didn't follow the rules

no callin home and checking to see if that was okay, or if the family had a 'baby on board sign'

and i NEVER once saw a gun or a knife in my high shool (3,000 kids)

maybe just my old age showin, but maybe not too :-)

Edited on May 15, 2008 at 1:55 AM Quote

I must DISAGREE wholeheartedly about spanking your students. A teacher, sub or regular, should not lay their hands on a student.

First of all, you don't personally know these kids or their parents, or the way they are disciplined at home, or why they act the way they do, or even if they have emotional problems or are victims of abuse, or if they have mood disorders or learning disabilities you haven't been informed of. And a sub, more often than not, doesn't even know the teacher they are subbing for, at least not very well. You get a lesson plan and a few notes on the students, and access to their minds, their emotions, their lives, and the way you treat them will have an effect on them when they go home and deal with what's going on there. That's a big responsibility. That's why teachers are so valued. They mold minds.

With each child each day you arrive into a new situation like a total stranger to these kids. Imagine the stress kids have when they have their own teacher they do know, on top of showing up for school with how that effects them.

I think it speaks volumes about your judgment, and the potential mistake you could be making, by thinking that spanking your substitute students is ok, especially after hearing you call (unruly) students "little bastards".

That is a shame.

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Sum_Southern_Sugar wrote:one likely has absolutely nothing to do with the other, but when i was in school, back in the bad old days, we got our butts whipped if we didn't follow the rules

no callin home and checking to see if that was okay, or if the family had a 'baby on board sign'

and i NEVER once saw a gun or a knife in my high shool (3,000 kids)

maybe just my old age showin, but maybe not too :-)

I think that there SHOULD be corpral punishment in schools. My mother signed a permission slip for me to get spanked...and then if I got spanked in school, I'd get another spanking when I got home!! I know this is hard to believe but I was spanked twice in elementary school and once in JUNIOR HIGH!!! It wasn't that I was "beat", it was to teach me to be respectful to my teachers and fellow students. It taught me humility as well. He!! my neighbors were allowed to spank me!!! I feel as though it DEFINATELY made me a respectful person.

My sister is a teacher and although the state of Pennsylvania has not "outlawed" copral punishment, the school district chooses not to use it. She teaches 5th graders who live in not so great conditions. I have gone to her class to help with projects and was APPALLED at how she was disrespected. They are so disruptive and take time and energy away from the few kids who behave and actually want to learn. These kids feel as though they can do and say ANYTHING! They aren't afraid or intimidated by anyone of authority, not even security or police. Half the kids don't even listen to their parents. I feel the parents need to start buckling down at home and keep their children in line and follow through when poor behavior is reported by a teacher. My other sister actually was called at work and had to go to her youngest son's school because he was fighting...in 1st grade!!!! She spanked him right then and there and made him apologize to the other kid. He hasn't been in a fight ever since!! I say whoop 'em all if they need it!! lol (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH BEATING!!! big difference between a spanking!)

Like I said, I was spanked 3 times....I know that's hard to believe!!! But I turned out fine!
Just my opinion....you are free to disagree!!

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PS...I'm not quite as old as SUM...but close enough!! lol

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hehe

* gives a spanking to why for saying i'm older than her :-)*

i mean, unless she has a 'Bayby On Board' sign in the window of her mini van, in which case i call her laywer and negotiate :-)

Edited on May 15, 2008 at 2:44 AM Quote

The problem is that (here in the uk) we are so short of special schools to house disruptive pupils that they end up in the main system for far too long causing mayhem and distress within the class. It is frankly ridiculous that teachers should be given the job of being parents and moral guidance counsellors as well as meeting the demands of the school curriculum.

The results speak for themselves. Teachers leave the profession in their droves here. Many fail to reach the three year mark before leaving. So you have professional, dedicated people who have trained to do the job...run away from the job after all the time and effort and cost of training but you leave the disruptive pupils in the schools, (who dont give a monkeys whether they can spell their own names), 'because it might hurt their feelings' if they get sent to a special school. Stupid beyond belief. No wonder we are hatching a nation of thickies.

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Ok Mexi-can... if it is proper to hit a CHILD for bad behaviour, where do you draw the line? If you have the right to deal with issues with violence, then I should too, yeah? So the next time you cut me off in traffic, then I should be able to pull you out of the car at the next light and whip your ass right?

I send my child to school to learn how to assimilate with the world around him. The lessons he learns he should be able to use. Where does he get the chance to use the violence? On his friends? On his own children? On his future wife?

I speak as one who was regularly "disciplined" as a child. Some adults do not know when to turn it off. I spent my entire childhood being beaten under the guise of "spanking"

I'm outta here. This thread makes me angry and sick to my freaking stomach. I am extremely angry because I have spent most of my adult life trying to unlearn the lessons I was taught as a child by adults like you.

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It might well be a cultural thing but your post made me almost fall off my chair as did some of the answers you've got :((
I may very well get my head bit off here but to me this is such a touchy subject and I can't keep my mouth shut. I'm sorry in advance if my lack of 100% knowlage in the nuances of the English language makes me come off unnessecarily harsh or if I offend anyone :( I just have to speak my mind... And I stress this is MY opinions, I do respect everyone elses opinion, even when I disagree!!

In Sweden it's forbidden by law to spank your or any other kids, at home, in school or whatever, since 1979.
To me if you need to physically correct/punish anybody you've failed as a parent or teacher (IN THAT PARTICULAR SITUATION - I'm not calling _anybody_ a bad parent/teacher here!!). I can see why many do (even here sadly - even though it's against the law) because it's a quick fix and honestly I think a spanking doesn't take as much effort, time or commitment as other disciplinary measures or means of upbringing.

I want my kids to RESPECT me - not to FEAR me. There's a difference between the two! I have THE most respect for my dad and he (or my mum) NEVER layed one hand on either of us kids. He's a retired teacher as well and I know (sinse many of my friends had him as a teacher) his students respected him too. He always respected us as human beings, talked to us without condescending, always explained his decisions and then stood by those decisions thus giving us boundaries we could rely on AND understand, taught us to take responsibility for our actions but didn't expect us to take on more responsibility than we as kids could handle (he never made big things up to us - he was the parent and he was in charge)
I think many parents today give their kids too many choices and options and let them decide things they're not mature enough to deal with. This leads to confusion and the kids seek boundaries they never get by acting up. Kids need to know what's what and how far they can go - they need to test the world and the adults around them in order to grow up but we as adults need to be there to make sure they don't go to far. Setting ground rules and boundaries is an act of love and helps the kid to understand the world. But you don't need spanking to set or inforce boundaries...
I understand the frustration of trying to deal with kids seemingly out of control (being a teacher myself) but what we need is engaged, educated teachers, support/education for parents who feel they need it, less kids in each class so that the teacher has time to work with each child and get to know them and their needs/abilities fully, we need more resources for councelling and special schools/groups...
We don't need the option to spank children. We need kids that by having good rolemodels learn how to respect their fellow human beings, old and young, by respecting themselves and by being treated with respect themselves. Listen to a child and he/she doesn't have to yell or disrupt or behave badly to get the attention they need. Listen to a child and the chances are he/she will listen to you.
Spank a child and the child fears you - or even worse starts to resent or hate you. Fear leads to anger and anger leads to more bad behaviour. Violence do lead to more violence.

Gawd that's almost a whole novel ;)
Again, I hope this didn't come out in the wrong way, it just saddens me when people believe physical punishment is a way of making the world right :(( Abuse of any kind never can, in my humble opinion...

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Im not totaly against spankings like all the walmart mommy patrol people, BUT I dont think they work...well I KNOW they dont work with my children....maybe for others??

I cant stand the thought of my kids being scared of me hitting them either....I was spanked all my childhood and it did nothing good for me....

With that said...

What I hate is to know that my kids go to school with people mean and angry enough to want to hit my child...or even to give my child an F and want to tell me my child is "dumb"...

What I think is that we need to look at what kind of people we have working in our schools..

Ya know! The kind of people that work with our kids and want to hit them because "THERE BEING LITTLE BASTARDS"

Since you asked to know what I think??

I think you should NOT be working with any children at all...

Makes me more worried to know what kind of people are with my children atleast 6 hours of there day, 5 days a week!

Poor teachers?? pffft!!!

Is there even such thing as a teacher who really cares anymore??

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gingersfella wrote:Ok Mexi-can... if it is proper to hit a CHILD for bad behaviour, where do you draw the line? If you have the right to deal with issues with violence, then I should too, yeah? So the next time you cut me off in traffic, then I should be able to pull you out of the car at the next light and whip your ass right?

I send my child to school to learn how to assimilate with the world around him. The lessons he learns he should be able to use. Where does he get the chance to use the violence? On his friends? On his own children? On his future wife?

I speak as one who was regularly "disciplined" as a child. Some adults do not know when to turn it off. I spent my entire childhood being beaten under the guise of "spanking"

I'm outta here. This thread makes me angry and sick to my freaking stomach. I am extremely angry because I have spent most of my adult life trying to unlearn the lessons I was taught as a child by adults like you.

So so well said!!
I'm so sorry for what you had to go through as a child and I'm so proud of you for breaking the pattern!!!

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no child should be spanked..by the teacher or the parent.i smacked me daughter once on her leg when she was little.the look on her face was of shock and i was shocked i did tht.i never ever smacked her again..and she grew up too be a loverly woman and shows me so much respect..i taught her disipline diff ways,she actually laughed at me when she was a bit naughty,.dad i know u dont smack me,lol,,id laugh and say i know,but then she wouldnt be playin her fav video game for a few hours,lol,id play it instead:)maybe i was lucky she grew up and learnt right from wrong and was able too understand why she was wrong...if i played a part in tht im chuffed..i condone any adult smackin a child or spankin them..kids are influenced by there parents as well u know..they learn off em as well as school and friends.respect ur child and u might get respect back when there older..its well worth it:)

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i will say though,,some children grow up too be bad too the bone even if there parents have tried wth no spankin or smackin and a stable home life.my brother was like tht and me dad brought him up good,but he was still bad all the time and still is as an adult.wht does a teacher do when a child is like tht..councilin?i dunno..its a fact some grow up too be murderers even when there home life has been good.i think teachin is a very hard job.some times a child cannot be reached by the teahcer for help.and needs some kind of extra help.they need help rather than spankin/smackin..

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gingersfella wrote:Ok Mexi-can... if it is proper to hit a CHILD for bad behaviour, where do you draw the line? If you have the right to deal with issues with violence, then I should too, yeah? So the next time you cut me off in traffic, then I should be able to pull you out of the car at the next light and whip your ass right?

I send my child to school to learn how to assimilate with the world around him. The lessons he learns he should be able to use. Where does he get the chance to use the violence? On his friends? On his own children? On his future wife?

I speak as one who was regularly "disciplined" as a child. Some adults do not know when to turn it off. I spent my entire childhood being beaten under the guise of "spanking"

I'm outta here. This thread makes me angry and sick to my freaking stomach. I am extremely angry because I have spent most of my adult life trying to unlearn the lessons I was taught as a child by adults like you.

DITTO HIM^^^^^

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and for the record,,, if a teacher put a finger on my child,, i would take a spade and ram it straight up teachers jaxy!

i dont put a hand on my kids,, im damned if im gunna let someone else do so.

Edited on May 15, 2008 at 5:47 AM Quote

Get out of teaching right now.

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You even find it funny to say things in your mind about 'dumb kids' you don't belong in teaching. Respect has to be earned.

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connieg wrote:You even find it funny to say things in your mind about 'dumb kids' you don't belong in teaching. Respect has to be earned.

id listen to connie mexi,, its actually left a bitter taste in my mouth to know teachers could think like you!!

ever heard of maxine carr??
no

READ UP.

its like a nurse who works with babies HATING hearing babies cry,, what to do then hey??
scary scary thought!

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my son has learning difficulties..in middle school he was ridiculed by his teacher for being thick!
he also cried alot has he was picked on too..he made this funny noise when he cried like a siren (he had something wrong with his annenoids which was fixed later)
the teacher named him siren! so all the class followed suit!!
i was not amused at all....i reported the teacher (a woman too )
but the name still stuck!
he had that much trouble in middle school he rebelled.he started skipping school...not cos he didn't want to be there.....because he did.....he actually skipped school but hung around the grounds for a full week.poor kid!
he was made to feel inferior to the other vkids...its taken us yrs to give him the confidence he lost.....
he's 20 this yr and still lacks self esteem....not all kids are bad cos they wanna be but are pushed that way...he's a good kid always as been...but these teachers failed him big time!
i say what Connie said! get another job mate cos this isn't for you!

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one more word...
there are some bad kids out there i know this...but even the bad ones have some issues wouldn't it be better to help them rather than push them over the edge with uncalled for punishment!

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Little_Wing wrote:and for the record,,, if a teacher put a finger on my child,, i would take a spade and ram it straight up teachers jaxy!

i dont put a hand on my kids,, im damned if im gunna let someone else do so.

I wouldn't ram anything up anything on anyone because if I did I wouldn't teach what I speak... but I would definetly report the teacher and have her/him fired :(((

Edited on May 15, 2008 at 6:43 AM Quote

Well my parents never hit me but then again I was a quiet and well behaved child....I was actually scared of my mother and didn't dare misbehave. My brother, on the other hand, behaved horribly and was always getting into trouble. She hit him once in a while, but as he got older he actually started hitting her back! So I don't think hitting a child is the answer.

There is definitely a way to punish a child that is more effective - like taking away privileges (television, computer, etc.) and really sticking to your guns on it. If there are two parents in the home, they must stick together. If one parent takes a television out of a child's room and the other one puts it right back in, the child gets mixed messages. This happened as I was growing up and resulted in a total failure to ever discipline my brother.

Kids today are so different though....it shocks me sometimes. I went on slide.com the other day to find out that my friend's son actually posted a slideshow under her name, without her knowledge, with pictures of him and his friends posing with guns and wads of cash. I think societal influences have much more to do with kids' behavior these days, and it's a real shame.

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connieg wrote:You even find it funny to say things in your mind about 'dumb kids' you don't belong in teaching. Respect has to be earned.

Here here!!!

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Ida-Fina wrote:

Little_Wing wrote:and for the record,,, if a teacher put a finger on my child,, i would take a spade and ram it straight up teachers jaxy!

i dont put a hand on my kids,, im damned if im gunna let someone else do so.

I wouldn't ram anything up anything on anyone because if I did I wouldn't teach what I speak... but I would definetly report the teacher and have her/him fired :(((

well you must have a lot more restraint then me when it comes to my babys then,, because i would kill for them,, and god forbid anyone that hurt them.

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Little_Wing wrote:

Ida-Fina wrote:

Little_Wing wrote:and for the record,,, if a teacher put a finger on my child,, i would take a spade and ram it straight up teachers jaxy!

i dont put a hand on my kids,, im damned if im gunna let someone else do so.

I wouldn't ram anything up anything on anyone because if I did I wouldn't teach what I speak... but I would definetly report the teacher and have her/him fired :(((

well you must have a lot more restraint then me when it comes to my babys then,, because i would kill for them,, and god forbid anyone that hurt them.

Yeah... I see your point and I would do anything for my kids too, make no mistake... Luckily noone so far ever threatened or so much as touched my kids so I haven't been in that situation... sitting here it's easy to be a pacifist I guess ;) - face to face with someone who wants to hurt my kids I'd probably react like you... Then again, while sitting here I feel if I did physically attack someone I'd probably be the one brought to justice... and that wouldn't help my kids... while getting the teacher fired would make sure to prevent my kids and any other kids from having to interact with him/her again - plus being unimployed probably hurt more than a black eye or a sore bottom would *rub hands* ;)

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Ida-Fina wrote:

Little_Wing wrote:

Ida-Fina wrote:

Little_Wing wrote:and for the record,,, if a teacher put a finger on my child,, i would take a spade and ram it straight up teachers jaxy!

i dont put a hand on my kids,, im damned if im gunna let someone else do so.

I wouldn't ram anything up anything on anyone because if I did I wouldn't teach what I speak... but I would definetly report the teacher and have her/him fired :(((

well you must have a lot more restraint then me when it comes to my babys then,, because i would kill for them,, and god forbid anyone that hurt them.

Yeah... I see your point and I would do anything for my kids too, make no mistake... Luckily noone so far ever threatened or so much as touched my kids so I haven't been in that situation... sitting here it's easy to be a pacifist I guess ;) - face to face with someone who wants to hurt my kids I'd probably react like you... Then again, while sitting here I feel if I did physically attack someone I'd probably be the one brought to justice... and that wouldn't help my kids... while getting the teacher fired would make sure to prevent my kids and any other kids from having to interact with him/her again - plus being unimployed probably hurt more than a black eye or a sore bottom would *rub hands* ;)

oh that there is very true my love,, nothing hurts a man more then his wallet,, ask my ex husband :)

LOL

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Little_Wing wrote:

Ida-Fina wrote:

Little_Wing wrote:

Ida-Fina wrote:

Little_Wing wrote:and for the record,,, if a teacher put a finger on my child,, i would take a spade and ram it straight up teachers jaxy!

i dont put a hand on my kids,, im damned if im gunna let someone else do so.

I wouldn't ram anything up anything on anyone because if I did I wouldn't teach what I speak... but I would definetly report the teacher and have her/him fired :(((

well you must have a lot more restraint then me when it comes to my babys then,, because i would kill for them,, and god forbid anyone that hurt them.

Yeah... I see your point and I would do anything for my kids too, make no mistake... Luckily noone so far ever threatened or so much as touched my kids so I haven't been in that situation... sitting here it's easy to be a pacifist I guess ;) - face to face with someone who wants to hurt my kids I'd probably react like you... Then again, while sitting here I feel if I did physically attack someone I'd probably be the one brought to justice... and that wouldn't help my kids... while getting the teacher fired would make sure to prevent my kids and any other kids from having to interact with him/her again - plus being unimployed probably hurt more than a black eye or a sore bottom would *rub hands* ;)

oh that there is very true my love,, nothing hurts a man more then his wallet,, ask my ex husband :)

LOL

You go girl ;))
lol

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I was most-well behaved and tried my best for the teachers that I liked. The ones that I didn't like.....well, let's just say I wasn't a bad kid, but I sure didn't feel any remorse for being less than nice and found it funny when others popped off.

Folks tend to feel justified in being rude when a person in a position of authority is less than fair.

If you think of your students as little bastards...they will pick up on it and respond in kind to that attitude. And if the parents pick up on this attitude...you lose any support you might need from them as well.

I have substitute taught for a few years......kids test you to see how you will respond. Once they figure out how you will respond....they treat you accordingly. Being kind but firm is a good thing to strive for. If you show them respect, then they are more apt to show you respect.

Just wondering what made you want to be a teacher? You seem to have a disdain for children.......

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I can't help thinking that we are not addressing the real issue here. The problem is that this teacher is so disheartened by poor behaviour in the class that he 'feels' like corporal punishment should be brought back. Of course, many years ago, corporal punishment was the norm and teachers would dish it out if they felt that the misbehaviour warrented the action. It is always possible to quote the case of a nutcase teacher who would delight in dishing it out or to quote the case of a pupil who really didnt deserve it (eg were being punished for being dyslexic or having tyrets before the conditions were properly understood). I dont know whether corporal punishment is right now or even whether it was right then but the facts remain:

There is a teaching shortage here for several reasons: Teachers no longer wish to face the stress of having to teach disruptive pupils or face their disruptive parents or fill in form after form or chase performance levels or introduce 'this years' new government change on how we should learn to read or write. It's an utter shambles.

I found this article in the Washington Post which made sad reading:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/08/AR2006050801344.html

50% leave!!!

and this quote I found on a website called 'select education'

'The research, which questioned 122 London teachers, shows that as well as misbehaviour issues, 86% cited stress and 84% difficulties in disciplining children as reasons why they would quit the education sector'.

86%!!!!

Maybe the problems facing society as a whole need to be considered and workable solutions found so that the term 'disruptive pupil' becomes as uncommon as finding a piece of chewing gum on a Singapore street.

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I'm still shocked that a person who chooses teaching as a profession uses the term "little bastards" to describe ANY child, let alone children they are trying to teach. Not only that, but when provoked by a parents concern of the child's grade, (even if the child hadn't earned a higher grade) that the teacher would think in their head that they would like to tell the parent that the child is simply just dumb? What exactly are we teaching then? Intolerance? Pessimism? All hope is lost? Children don't deserve our patience and respect because they act out? This attitude is coming from a teacher?

WOW.

Now I am assuming the verbiage chosen in the original post was (hopefully) an exaggeration purely for effect...but the underlying anger and crude language, and the suggestion that we strike a child (who is not even our own child), is really disappointing.

As a teacher, you choose to be a teacher. And even if it's a stressful, constantly evolving place to work, there are many many many outlets and references to use as applications for teaching in today's classrooms.Teaching workshops, books, education professionals, your local PTA or the counselors and/or administration in your school district, including special education and even extended education classes for currently employed teachers. A pro-active teacher with the desire to improve a child's life would never throw their hands in the air and go, I give up because these kids are brats, lets hit them.
:o(

Edited on May 15, 2008 at 7:38 AM Quote

I the US, we have NCLB and other various acts in place that have set the tone for education. We educate everybody...education is mandatory....education is a right, not a privelege.

Teachers do have l hoops to jump through and lots of crap to deal with from every direction...and the pay is not that great considering......

so why would somebody go into teaching if they have a disdain for kids?

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i understood the post..its about punishment....
my sons teacher thought humiliating my son would stop him crying!
it didn't it made matters worse.

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I also wanted to address the fact that mexi-can told a parent the only reason he gave the student an "F" is because he couldn't give a "G"....maybe teaching just isn't for you. I think that comment was insensitive and perhaps it would help for you to put yourself in that parent's shoes. If a teacher said something like that to you about your child, how do you think it would make you feel?

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Mex as someone who spends a lot of my time working with young people with serious issues that effects their lives i can put my hand on my heart and say that it is attitudes like yours that saddens me most and yes, I personally hear of many young people who simply withdraw from the education system or rebel out of pure frustration because of teachers with attitudes like yours.

Yes a lot of kids come from homes where structure and boundaries are lacking and these kids are seen as problems but in my eyes a good school and even better teachers with good training and a genuine interest in helping kids will work harder with children from a young age to support them and help them build their self esteem.....it can make such a difference and it is never too late.

It is also commonly known that a lot of young people have learning issues and that mainstream education is not always the best setting for them to learn in. I am glad to see that this is being addressed more in schools and kids are being given individual attention and the support to help bring out the best in them...not writing them off.... :(

So in your eyes if a kid is 'dumb' does that mean that they should be written off?
In my eyes that is exactly the kid who should be given every opportunity to be helped and supported.....

It worries me that you appear to have lost your passion for teaching and that you are there even on a substitute basis, what messages are you sending out to these young people if not through your words then your body language alone?

You know even the 'tough' kids have their weaker moments and I have seen the other side of them after giving them time to get to know them and listen to them....

My suggestion would be start setting examples of behaviour beginning with yourself and be consistent, take the time to learn more about the kids you are working with....

if this so upsets you then maybe take some action within the school you work in and get together with other teachers and the principles to create a time out class for the disruptive kids and when they are there have a teacher with specialist training work with these kids.........I bet that you could start to see more positive changes.....

Working in schools myself I find it so frustrating to see kids from an early age labelled by teachers and it snowballs as they continue their education and I have bounced off teachers who fail to get the message that they are the ones making some kids lives hell......not every child is academically gifted and there is nothing worse for a child than being labelled a failure or stupid from an early age..........why can't teachers learn this???

if you are at the point of wanting to throttle a kid then it is time to back out and take time out......all that frustration inside you is only radiating out there and as for the kid you deemed as 'dumb', have you even tried to discover what their strengths may be and encourage them? it is always the key in getting a kid to interact and you could be well surprised to see a difference in how they react to positive and constructive feedback.......

Give them all a homework assignment such as write an essay telling you all about them, who they are, what they want in life, their interests, the good things and the bad.....I promise me if you do that your attitude will so change after reading and discovering who they really are....

Time to update your teaching skills or take a break......sounds like major burnout to me.........and don't forget why child protection guidelines are set in place....

IMO teaching is not a job, it is a vocation......you hold the balance of a child's life in your hands too, yes, as much as the parents do also. If the parents are failing them, then at least show them that one another adult in their life can be responsible and caring.......

edited for spellcheck....I was afraid of getting a G... :)

Edited on May 15, 2008 at 8:01 AM Quote

My Mother has been a teacher since I was a kid, my uncle, my grandmothers, my cousins, and my friends.....and I've seen my Mom work through all sorts of changes throughout the years, everything from political school district issues, school funding, over sized classrooms, low pay, parents getting involved, ADD and spec ed students, new programs...you name it...and she has always loved her job, even throughh the rough patches. I've learned a lot from her, and even volunteered in her classrooms.

Not once did I ever hear her call a child a derogatory name, call them dumb, or be sarcastic, cruel or rude. And I'm sure the idea of hitting a hit would repulse her.

Three cheers for good teachers!!!

Yay Yay Yay!!!

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maria,
excellent post!

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I guess we can all easily see the crude verbiage in his opening post as triggering our dislike for his stance. I still stand by my opinions 100%. But he obviously has arrived at a very low opinion of children based on his own experiences, which shouldn't be swept under the rug. He needs help.

Because lets face it, teaching can be hard. So I hope our messages sink in, and that these opinions help Mexi, rather than hurt, so perhaps he can find some outlets to answer his questions about his teaching woes.

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ladylikepsych wrote:I the US, we have NCLB and other various acts in place that have set the tone for education. We educate everybody...education is mandatory....education is a right, not a privelege.

Teachers do have l hoops to jump through and lots of crap to deal with from every direction...and the pay is not that great considering......

so why would somebody go into teaching if they have a disdain for kids?

Like that's a valid or logical argument....

Why do some women have children, only to drown them? Why do some men marry and have kids, only to murder them all years later? Why do some nurses and doctors spend hundreds of thousands of dollars/pounds to achieve a career, only to murder patients?

If I read you correct, you're saying that, the mere fact that he chose to be a SUBSTITUTE teacher should earn him some sort of angel wings? I mean, this guy has GOT to be a saint, just because he chose to be a teacher?

Don't get me wrong Mexi-Can...I don't know you. I'm not saying you're evil or anything like that. But maybe you should consider the fact that maybe some of these students are being mistreated at home and that's why they act like they do. So...if that's the case, how could an ass whipping from you help?

Another thing?... The most insidious thing about child abuse is not the actual abuse. That's easy to identify and stop. The most evil thing is the brainwashing that occurs in the general public. Already I've read 2 things in this thread that are deeply disturbing.

First, the comment about the Wal-Mart Mommy Patrol.... in what twisted reality is someone speaking up on the behalf of children some sort of fodder for ridicule? Sure, let's give someone a childish name when they have the freaking balls to speak out in public against violence against a child. I don't care if the rest of your post IS against hitting, the undercurrent is obvious.

Secondly, the post that starts off with... My parents didn't hit me, but then again I didn't do anything to deserve it. How destructive is this kind of thinking? What is basically being said is that children should be held responsible for their abuse. I don't care what a kid does, NO ONE deserves to be hit by an adult.

Btw, the people who say, "I was spanked, and I turned out ok" are wrong too. Generations of this type of thinking has led us to the problems that Mexi-Can and other teachers deal with today.

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I have two points I want to share. One concerns the impact a teacher can have on a child and the second concerns how I handle my students.

When I was young, I had a teacher that should not have been allowed to teach kids like me. She made my life in the classroom a living Hell. I was a good student and yet she initiated and encouraged the class to ostracize me. The impact was very long lasting. Thankfully, the following year I had a teacher that DID believe in her students and would work with each student's needs to help them succeed. I owe her a huge debt of gratitude.

One of my job responsibilities is as an adjunct (part time) professor. I teach the foundational classes in math and chemistry. This means I have mostly freshman students with all their newly found freedom to contend with.

Respect is EARNED! Immediately when starting a new semester, the students find out they have expectations to meet and there are positive and negative consequences for how well they satisfy those expectations.

Yes. There are students that it is easy to see are NOT taught in the home the concept of respect. That however does NOT give me the right to treat them badly, call them names or belittle them in any way. If I want them to respect me and my position, I MUST set the standard.

Sure I get frustrated when I have a student that does not want to work or learn. It is amazing how quickly a little bit of effort to find out WHY the kid isn't getting with the program is effective. This isn't only for older students.

I use the same technique in the chat room I run for abused kids. If you have never dealt with abused kids, some of them are the most volatile kids you will ever find. Consistent firmness and the use of positive reinforcement works wonders. I'm not saying tell a child they are brilliant when they have a hard time adding 2+2 even counting on their fingers. I am saying you acknowledge the effort they DO and let them know there is a higher standard to reach.

Public schools today do have many discipline issues BUT some of the most effective teachers and schools are inner-city schools with the toughest kids there are to teach. One needs to consider why those schools and students succeed when others are having issues. It comes down primarily to that respect thing again.

Just because an adult is older than a child does NOT mean the adult can treat the kid with an attitude of "Because I say so". Nope. That doesn't work at all in a group setting such as a classroom. What does work rather well is to demonstrate respect towards the students and to be consistent in making sure your expectations to be treated in kind are clear.

Telling a parent of a student the student got an "F" because their child is so dumb they even if only in facial expression is showing great disrespect to the child, the parent and even yourself. It points out the TEACHER'S failure to TEACH not the child's failure to learn! Every student is capable of learning. It is a teacher's responsibility to find keys to unlock those closed minds. If a teacher cannot do that, GET OUT OF THE CLASSROOM before you harm a child like that teacher long ago did me.

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Betty I agree with what you just wrote......
a major part of my work involves debriefing and consult and part of that is self awareness ...... when I start to notice that my own personal stuff is effecting my work I know I need to resolve it and that mostly involves seeking support or ways that help me to chill out, hence why I come here......

We can all get burnt out in no matter what job we do and perhaps Mex thought that this was a safe place to vent out but the topic of children is highly sensitive......and so it can generate highly charged personal views........

there is a lot of advice posted here so I'd suggest considering it carefully Mex, my views weren't meant to be a personal attack, simply my views based on what you posted...........

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bipolarbetty wrote:I must DISAGREE wholeheartedly about spanking your students. A teacher, sub or regular, should not lay their hands on a student.

First of all, you don't personally know these kids or their parents, or the way they are disciplined at home, or why they act the way they do, or even if they have emotional problems or are victims of abuse, or if they have mood disorders or learning disabilities you haven't been informed of. And a sub, more often than not, doesn't even know the teacher they are subbing for, at least not very well. You get a lesson plan and a few notes on the students, and access to their minds, their emotions, their lives, and the way you treat them will have an effect on them when they go home and deal with what's going on there. That's a big responsibility. That's why teachers are so valued. They mold minds.

With each child each day you arrive into a new situation like a total stranger to these kids. Imagine the stress kids have when they have their own teacher they do know, on top of showing up for school with how that effects them.

I think it speaks volumes about your judgment, and the potential mistake you could be making, by thinking that spanking your substitute students is ok, especially after hearing you call (unruly) students "little bastards".

That is a shame.

It is ok to disagree but you are wrong...my generation was spanked in school and there was no problems there or with us later. Now with the current generation there is this big problem of the kids thinking "nobody tells me what to do"..they get this attitude because there is little consequence to their actions.These fairly new bleeding heart attitudes are making big problems in our society. Basic proof is how kids in the 60's acted in school and how they act now! Yes they need spankings and they need them now and they need them badly!

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What is basically being said is that children should be held responsible for their abuse. I don't care what a kid does, NO ONE deserves to be hit by an adult.

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Bingo!

Exactly!

Kids aren't responsible for their abuse.

On the contrary: Adults have a responsibility to stay in emotional & physical control around their kids at all times, no matter how frustrated they get. It is their responsibility to find another way to discipline, and to stop the cycle of causing a child physical or emotional pain.

It can be done, even for the most strong willed child. It can be done.

No one, or no living thing, deserves to be hit by an adult.

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wizard_of_ice wrote:

bipolarbetty wrote:I must DISAGREE wholeheartedly about spanking your students. A teacher, sub or regular, should not lay their hands on a student.

First of all, you don't personally know these kids or their parents, or the way they are disciplined at home, or why they act the way they do, or even if they have emotional problems or are victims of abuse, or if they have mood disorders or learning disabilities you haven't been informed of. And a sub, more often than not, doesn't even know the teacher they are subbing for, at least not very well. You get a lesson plan and a few notes on the students, and access to their minds, their emotions, their lives, and the way you treat them will have an effect on them when they go home and deal with what's going on there. That's a big responsibility. That's why teachers are so valued. They mold minds.

With each child each day you arrive into a new situation like a total stranger to these kids. Imagine the stress kids have when they have their own teacher they do know, on top of showing up for school with how that effects them.

I think it speaks volumes about your judgment, and the potential mistake you could be making, by thinking that spanking your substitute students is ok, especially after hearing you call (unruly) students "little bastards".

That is a shame.

It is ok to disagree but you are wrong...my generation was spanked in school and there was no problems there or with us later. Now with the current generation there is this big problem of the kids thinking "nobody tells me what to do"..they get this attitude because there is little consequence to their actions.These fairly new bleeding heart attitudes are making big problems in our society. Basic proof is how kids in the 60's acted in school and how they act now! Yes they need spankings and they need them now and they need them badly!

Well, I disagree completely.

You are saying that spankings didn't harm YOU. But those spankings you got that kept YOU on the straight and narrow, turned you into a spanker or supporter of spanking.

With the way kids are acting out now, for whatever reason, home abuse, drugs, parents on drugs, parents hitting them and/or neglecting their kid's emotional needs, well, at this point, spanking them will make THEM spankers too, or worse, probably hitter, slappers, you name it.

Let's not encourage more spankers in this world.

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Do we really want to raise a whole new batch of spankers?

A.K.A...people who hit other people for control over them.

I hope not.

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Michael picking up on what you said about a whole generation of 'our' age getting spanked in school and it didn't do any harm.....

Believe me as a school's counsellor I see the harm....it has been trans-generational......

I know for a fact that because of that kind of bringing up that many peeps our ages became much too liberal in their sense of how they have raised their kids and now we do have a generation of kids who don't really know what structure and boundaries are.....and so we throw our hands up in the air and proclaim shock......

I was smacked when I was young and all i can say is I wish to God my parents had realised the deep down hurt that was caused.....

As a single parent of three budding teenagers myself I can say for sure that as frustrating as it gets that positive and fast intervention works as being consistent.....they get the message just as hard as a thud to the head......

Smacking is only a temporary solution that gives you control, for a child it creates shame, pain and anger.......

It is simply too easy for peeps to use their hands or sharp words to bring someone down when they could take the time to use their brain in a more lasting and sensitive manner setting an example for the next generation of kids of what respect really is.........

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