Catholicism?

Hi, scarlet! I wish you much luck with your new thread. :)
I've got to go pick up my grandson, but I'll come back and visit again.

Incidentally, all my inlaws are Catholics. Mormons and Catholics in the same family...oh my! But we all get along great. :)

Edited on November 16, 2007 at 2:01 PM Quote

You're very welcome, scarlet. Have fun. :)

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Jo, I will be back to ask questions and offer comments as I have them. You already know I love to learn.

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What a great way to start a thread! Thank you for posting that. I find it interesting reading about different religions and what each one believes. I think it's wonderful. I'm looking forward to reading much more on this thread and hopefully other religions will also share in another thread about what they believe. I feel much happier today. Thank you!!!!

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Here's a question for you Jo. We discussed this a bit before but my sieve of a brain forgot stuff. I really liked how you helped improve my understanding of the role of the Pope in Catholicism. Will you share that with everyone?

*No. Peachy has not converted to Catholicism no matter how much Jo wants her to. hehehehe*

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I'm a catholic!

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Not a bad idea here Jo, since Beliefs is a whole separate topic. Hope it stays on topic.
We say that in church too (not ever time, just every once in a while). It's called the Apostle's Creed.

That is a LOT of Popes!

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Am I allowed to reply with what the Bible says on this and about Peter? Or is that Bashing? I just want to make sure I am not over stepping my bounds here... As I am not a practicing Catholic nor do I believe in some of the Churches Doctrine and traditions.. Which is ok right? We do not all have the same beliefs .. That is why I tend to go to imformation that is backed up by the Bible..

Here is a link as it will not allow to copy.. It is what the Bible says on the Popes.. Or what it doesn't say.

Perhaps then Jo you can explain why to me as well how this did begin?

I am not being disrespectful in any way. It is just that this and the Bible do not mesh.. You tell me.. And really I am being on the level here.. Just very curious. :)

http://www.soundwords.net/mmj/was_peter_the_first_pope.html

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I did not say that they did not exist.. I wanted to know why they exist? And I don't consider scripture to be semantics.... My question was on the level. You supplied me with a link to a pope.. You called him a pastor right? And said it was a gift from the Holy Spirit which is part of the trinity so I am just trying to understand what you meant? Not being confrontational just inquiring.. I was raised Catholic.. I actually had one of the Popes ride down the street on a visit to America. .. as a child and saw him.. Did not know at the time what it meant but I went..

So again really just asking a question ...

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Here are some verses that support the idea of a pastoral structure with the church.

Matt.16:18-19: "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Isaiah 22:20-22: "On that day I will summon my servant Eliakim, son of Hilkiah; I will clothe him with your robe, and gird him with your sash, and give over to him your authority. He shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah. I will place the key of the House of David on his shoulder; when he opens, no one shall shut, when he shuts, no one shall open." (shows a parallel to Matthew 16:18-20)

John 21:15-17: "..Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He then said to him a second time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep." He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love me?" Peter was distressed that he had said to him a third time, "Do you love me?" and he said to him, "Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you." (Jesus) said to him, "Feed my sheep."

Luke 12:41: "Then Peter said, "Lord, is this parable meant for us or for everyone?" And the Lord replied, "Who, then, is the faithful and prudent steward whom the master will put in charge of his servants to distribute (the) food allowance at the proper time?" (Feeding theme appears again here)

Luke 22:31-32: "Simon, Simon, behold Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers."

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Well Peachy if you looked at my link..It clearly goes into the word Rock and its translation., And the fact that Peter was never documented as even being in Rome just made me all the more curious..

And Jo.. I never claimed to know zip about the Catholic Church it was all said in Latin when I went to mass as a child which really made me wonder LOL.

Your link did not give me any information on how it went from Peter to the Pope.. My link went into deep detail even more so then scripture as it translated words from the origional greek .. Just again asking.. But if I am not going to get that warm welcome that I had hoped I shall depart..

Again,.. We don;t all have to believe the same things.. I think you must have said this 100 times to me Jo and I am trying to go with the flow here as not to be accused of not being open minded..

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I did look Di. However, there is one piece missing from the link you gave and that is that the Catholic church was actually not based in Rome until nearly the end of the 1st century. It was with Pope Clement I that communications began to be predominately dispersed from Rome. Rome was historically a ruling state and the governments of people within the Holy Lands was overseen by Romans. The center of power was Rome and thus the concentration of religion grew to be centered there also.

I would suggest everyone read I Cor 12-14 again if you haven't recently. Lots of good stuff there about division and why it is a bad thing.

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Look I am having a really bad week.. I had a really bad day yesterday ..Attacked right and left and only one person on my thread stood up for me and that was Ron.... Again I am human with feelings.. And not perfect .. I may be a Christian but I do not and will not take crap from people who read something I may have been over zealous about as its my nature and beat me to a pulp. I mean really do you think I am made of stone??

Thank you Jo for sending peace my way,,
My picture may look cheery but that is the problem with being on the net. Or behind a computer.. You can;t see the person at that moment who you are either insulting or mocking .. And I too am guilty of that.. But geez if I see anyone say they are down I always PM them and send them some kind of nice thoughts.. Ok I am done ranting. Going to lay down and lay off the computer..

Edited on November 16, 2007 at 4:26 PM Quote

I don't have time for words, getting ready for work, but here is a link from Wikipedia about the origins of the Papacy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope

I am a Mexican Catholic. I think the only major difference is that Mexicans believe in "La Virgin de Guadalupe"( the Virgin of Guadalupe).

Ok need to finish getting ready.
May the lord be with you ...
Jess

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Di, I do love you dearly. I'm very sorry life is being unkind to you. The past 2 weeks have been exceptionally difficult for me also. This isn't about taking or dishing out crap Honey. It is about loving respect for ALL believers no matter how distant our understandings of what is right/wrong is. Hopefully you will benefit from the blessings many of us are asking for you and your life.

I don't see things as a matter of standing up for anyone. I see things as a matter of holding God up as a beacon of light. When I shoot off my mouth and it is hurtful to someone and that is brought to my attention, as one of God's kids, I have the responsibility to look carefully not only at what I said but how I said it.

Jo and I happen to be VERY distant on many points regarding our individual understanding of God and God's will. However, we do not shy away from discussing them at length. The one thing we insist stay present is that we maintain respect and a showing of love towards the other even if we end up agreeing to disagree.

I do hope with all I have that life starts treating you with greater kindness. I know when I have rough patches that is when I work harder to practice something I heard long ago as a means of dealing with difficulties. "When the pressure is on, give." I also go read Job again because talk about being tested, he got it in spades. Serves as an inspiration to me to be extra careful that I do not allow the pain of my own misery leach into others' lives.

Many blessings of God for you Di. More than you can count is my hope and wish for you.

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Miss Peachy. I just want to say you are awesome!

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Well I myself am a baptist... I always look into other religions just to see what they believe so I will know for my own sake when I get in debates =) I love debating .. Long as its good and friendly. Heres some of the most important difference are (Baptist view presented first, then Catholic):

1. The source of authority: the Bible vs. the Bible plus tradition plus the ex cathedra pronouncements of the pope.

2. The authority of the pope: None vs. Christ's representative on earth.

3. Salvation: By faith alone vs. by faith plus works.

4. Baptism: of believers by immersion as a "sign" of one's commitment to Christ vs. of infants by pouring as the means of salvation.

5. The Apocrypha: not canonical (part of inspired Scripture) vs. canonical.

6. The Lord's Supper: Symbolic of Christ's death vs. a re-sacrifice of Christ, with the bread and wine being "transubstantiated" into the literal body and blood of Christ.

7. The place of Mary: to be honored as any other believer for being faithful to the Lord vs. to be prayed to and venerated.

8. Saints: all believers in Christ are saints vs. especially "holy" people the pope has canonized, who can then be prayed to.

9. Meaning of the Church: all true believers in Christ vs. the Roman Catholic Church, with Protestants being "separated brethren."

10. Priests: not needed vs. needed as "mediators" between the congregation and God, and as "sacrificers" of Christ in the mass.

There are many others, but these should give you some idea of the "gap" between Baptists and Catholics.

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well that was quite a list of comparison... And even with all that... how do you treat catholic people? and just one more if you don't mind.. though the "church" has all these teachings.. what of catholic people that call upon the name of the Lord? And those catholics that have excepted Christs virgin birth, life, death and resurection as fulfillment of prophecy and as salvation for thier sin and walk in faith... hope and Love? I would love to hear your answer to this question... only because you made such a list.. not so I could like.. trash what you answer or say any response at all... just curious. btw.. those things you wrote above... as far as I understand it... they are correct comparisons in many cases.

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Try.. I know Shaun a long time and he is one of the sweetest men I know on this site. We are both admins in the chat room together.. I am sure he did not mean any disrespect here.. He was simply posting his beliefs and it happend to be on a Catholic thread. .. So that is his point of view or what he grew up with.. I don't think he meant to bash anyone.. Not the Shaun I know.. Just saying.. And I am sure he treats everyone whether Catholic or Jewish with the utmost respect..

Please don't get on the defensive to a new comer.. Have we not had enough strife these past few days.. So much so it made me ill. hugss

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LOL Di its ok

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Im not trashing catholicism. I treat Catholics the same as I do anyone. I actually have a coworker at the firehouse thats catholic.. We have lots of debates. Its fun and interesting. I can take just about anything.. And believe it or not.. after all our talks, we found out that we have very similar beliefs.
And I really dont understand what you are asking me to answer on the acceptance of christs virgin birth?? If your asking do I think your going to have eternal life in heaven then Yes I do. Thats why I dont ever get angry on these debates..As long as were both going to have eternal life in heaven.. Why bother.. Have fun learning about each others beliefs.

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I found Shaun's post very informative and well written. It was a contrast in how different people (denominations) view different aspects of Christianity. I totally agree with the statement he makes.

"As long as were both going to have eternal life in heaven.. Why bother.. Have fun learning about each others beliefs."

I love to learn so I welcome posts like his.

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TY Peachy ... I totally agree with you. I am firm in what I stand on ..so learning other religions doesnt brainwash me. I actually even invited some Jehovas Witness people in my house the other day just to see what they had to say. And I have to say it was very interesting. I didnt bash them and they didnt bash me... We both stated our views and shook hands and they left =)

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you just answered the question.. it's kinda how I feel. I pretty much treat those who call on the name of the Lord as brothers or sisters in Christ. there are a lot of different ideas out there and alot of different beliefs and all that.. and everyone has the right to believe what they do.. and I don't bash any one for any of that.. those in here thinking I was starting somethings I think are a little sensitive to all the craziness that has gone on in these rooms.. I woulnd't want to start anything that doesnt honor Christ. It was just a simple question.

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Well Im learning something... Did not know Mary was not worshipped.. Never heard that before.
Im not gonna disagree on any of the others because I shouldnt be here I see. Although the title of this thread is Catholicism???? And you state in your opening post EVERYONE is welcome here.. Just dont come to say your religion is wrong...Which I may add I havent done. =) Have fun !

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but, who am I to judge another man's servant, kinda thing. Now when we do have a conversation.. I wont nessesarily agree if they don't have scripture to back it up.. but, I am certainly not going to just jump on them and ATTTTAAAAAACKKKK!!

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hey scarlett.. Im curious.. (I wish you all knew my heart... serious.. when I type.. please.. dont picture me with this smirk on my face) Im very gentle and kind.. (not puffin' up here... just saying.. so you know.. so it will be recieved the way it is.. rather than what is could be assumed to be... thats fair ins't it?

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Ok Try,, I may have jumped the gun seeing your question to Shaun.. But I suppose I also have been a bit on edge over the past few days on these threads and did not want to see anymore negative posts. I mean it when I said it made me ill. I was not joking. Have a good night...

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So am I welcome =) ?? Can I ask more? Maybe we should go to the text chatroom instead of bloggin up this thread =) I really am not here to down you, you should be able to see into my posts enough to feel me. I respect your right to your beliefs enough to leave it alone if you wish though.

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I'd like to mention.. that I ended my post with ... in many comparisons... My wifes grandmother.. is one of the most wonderful people you would ever meet! she 87 and could probably do cart wheels if it wasnt a car accident that messed up her shoulder.

She is a staunch catholic.. but she is a believer in Christ. She adores him.. and loves the father with all her heart.

I sit at her feet and ask her questions all the time.. I seek her wisdom in christ every seriously. I know of no one who exibits the love of Christ more than her. And If Jesus said" you will know them by thier love one for another" then she is the one to ask.

sure.. we disagree about some stuff. but htis girl is a Christian that honors Christ with.. not only her tongue.. but with her life.

I don't look at her and think.."she believes some unscriptual stuff and shes really wrong here and wow you aught to see where she's messed up here" I see her love... and we talk about Gods word.. And I let her know I dont agree if it comes up... but.. I sit at her feet.

I see her regularly.. but, I call her every month or so just for the sole purpose of telling her how much she has changed my life with her love.. with her love for Christ and with her example.

But, Im not catholic.. dont ever want to be.. and I think they are waaaay off in some things.. but she IS a servant of the most HIgh and he loves her like crazy...

I know a Jehovahs witness whom I have had lengthy discussions with. I've built her with the word like crazy. and she builds me. She knows I thinks some of the things "they" believe are crazzzzy.. but we stick to where we can agree... "he who calls upon the Lord will be saved"
and YOu will know them by thier love..

I think I made my point.. so..just so you know..(again) I hold no ill here... and when I ask a question..it is NEVER in malice... it is just to know where you are at.. and If you say.. aaaah... I'd rather not answer that.. thats ok to.. Im not here to fight.. Im here to enjoy the body of Christ.. and build one another...

I know its long..I wont post any more long ones.. but I want you all to know my heart.. so nothing gets started by assumtions and misunderstandings... no prob

Edited on November 17, 2007 at 12:46 AM Quote

In Mexico, Our Lady of Guadalupe( virgen de guadalupe/Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe/La Virgen Morena) is held in very high regards. She is what UNITES us( mexicans). She is basically the symbol of Mexico, our identity, our MOTHER. Some even call her our Queen.

"May 25, 1754, Pope Benedict XIV declared Our Lady of Guadalupe patron of what was then called New Spain( Now Mexico), corresponding to Spanish Central and Northern America, and approved liturgical texts for the Mass and Liturgy of the Hours in her honour.

Pope Leo XIII granted new texts in 1891 and authorized coronation of the image in 1895.

Pope Saint Pius X proclaimed her patron of Latin America in 1910.

In 1935 Pope Pius XI proclaimed her patron of the Philippines and had a monument in her honor erected in the Vatican Gardens.

Pope Pius XII declared the Virgin of Guadalupe “Queen of Mexico and Empress of the Americas” in 1945, and "Patroness of the Americas" in 1946.

Pope John XXIII invoked her as "Mother of the Americas" in 1961, referring to her as Mother and Teacher of the Faith of All American populations.

1966 Pope Paul VI sent a Golden Rose to the shrine."

In 1992 he dedicated to Our Lady of Guadalupe a chapel within St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican. he named Our Lady of Guadalupe patron of the Americas on January 22, 1999 (with the result that her liturgical celebration had, throughout the Americas, the rank of Solemnity), and visited the shrine again on the following day.

On July 31, 2002, he canonized Juan Diego before a crowd of 12 million, and later that year included in the General Calendar of the Roman Rite, as optional memorials, the liturgical celebrations of Saint Juan Diego Cuauhtlatoatzin (December 9) and Our Lady of Guadalupe (12 December)

In Mexico, a baby born on December 12th, male or female is named Maria Guadalupe, in her honor.

Juan Diego is the indian that saw "La Virgen de Guadalupe" appear to him on December 9, 1531 at the Hill of Tepeyac.

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Shaun wrote:TY Peachy ... I totally agree with you. I am firm in what I stand on ..so learning other religions doesnt brainwash me. I actually even invited some Jehovas Witness people in my house the other day just to see what they had to say. And I have to say it was very interesting. I didnt bash them and they didnt bash me... We both stated our views and shook hands and they left =)

Wanna hear something funny. I am a Southern Baptist by baptism, and my dad is a Jehovas Witness. Talk about an interesting discussion on religion at home. We have agreed to disagree and do not discuss religion past Jesus and that we love God! I told him I love you Daddy and I will not fight with you! LOL. I think he prays a lot for me. I'm GLAD!! I pray for him too, just each in our own way.

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Hi Jo! I'm very interested in your topic. I'll be reading w/great interest. Many of my family members are Catholic and I honestly know very little about it. It's about time I learn some, huh! Thanks Jo!
Respectfully ~JB

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Cheekylilvixen wrote:In Mexico, Our Lady of Guadalupe( virgen de guadalupe/Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe/La Virgen Morena) is held in very high regards. She is what UNITES us( mexicans). She is basically the symbol of Mexico, our identity, our MOTHER. Some even call her our Queen.

"May 25, 1754, Pope Benedict XIV declared Our Lady of Guadalupe patron of what was then called New Spain( Now Mexico), corresponding to Spanish Central and Northern America, and approved liturgical texts for the Mass and Liturgy of the Hours in her honour.

Pope Leo XIII granted new texts in 1891 and authorized coronation of the image in 1895.

Pope Saint Pius X proclaimed her patron of Latin America in 1910.

In 1935 Pope Pius XI proclaimed her patron of the Philippines and had a monument in her honor erected in the Vatican Gardens.

Pope Pius XII declared the Virgin of Guadalupe “Queen of Mexico and Empress of the Americas” in 1945, and "Patroness of the Americas" in 1946.

Pope John XXIII invoked her as "Mother of the Americas" in 1961, referring to her as Mother and Teacher of the Faith of All American populations.

1966 Pope Paul VI sent a Golden Rose to the shrine."

In 1992 he dedicated to Our Lady of Guadalupe a chapel within St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican. he named Our Lady of Guadalupe patron of the Americas on January 22, 1999 (with the result that her liturgical celebration had, throughout the Americas, the rank of Solemnity), and visited the shrine again on the following day.

On July 31, 2002, he canonized Juan Diego before a crowd of 12 million, and later that year included in the General Calendar of the Roman Rite, as optional memorials, the liturgical celebrations of Saint Juan Diego Cuauhtlatoatzin (December 9) and Our Lady of Guadalupe (12 December)

In Mexico, a baby born on December 12th, male or female is named Maria Guadalupe, in her honor.

Juan Diego is the indian that saw "La Virgen de Guadalupe" appear to him on December 9, 1531 at the Hill of Tepeyac.

See now this all confuses me a bit.. Is there different customs or traditions for Catholics in each Country?

Again as I am not a Catholic. I don't really understand all of the naming of saints by the Pope to common people.. In the Bible the word saint means all believers... So can you help me to understand this a bit better and why it's done? :)

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spennington wrote:
Wanna hear something funny. I am a Southern Baptist by baptism, and my dad is a Jehovas Witness. Talk about an interesting discussion on religion at home. We have agreed to disagree and do not discuss religion past Jesus and that we love God! I told him I love you Daddy and I will not fight with you! LOL. I think he prays a lot for me. I'm GLAD!! I pray for him too, just each in our own way.

Now that's just the sweetest thing!

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