Jews who have a relationship with God?

That was a wonderful story! I am so glad that God saved your dog :) I have had many experiences like these as well, and only if you have experienced it first-hand can you really understand how incredible it feels to know that God loves you that much. I'm not fancy in my praying either ;) Thank (well, Him) that He doesn't require it!
Oh, and sorry, I'm not Jewish but I wanted to respond anyway because that story was too good not to!

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those two parrots in your avatar or adorable JoJo

I was born and raised Jewish, had the Bar-Mitzvah and made my fairwell announcement stating that this doesn't work for me, I had to try to break away from organized money-making religion and all it's hypocracy and fear. I'd had enough fear and suffering in my life even by the time I was 13 and I saw God NOWHERE. Suffering, death, and God became synonymous to me. I never was able to find any "love". Just fear.

Doesn't matter to me WHO or what a person believes in as long as they believe in something that is their for them.. Doesn't matter what I think either. Call the saviour WHOEVER you want. I think the nice thing about a relationship with some deity, is that unlike transient people, the deity if you truly find it someplace can be in your head until the day you die.. I state head because I personally can't see the guy :)

Personally, I'm thinking of getting a stuffed animal to hug at night :) I'm getting old and want something that won't turn around and hurt me. Dogs just don't live long enough, and turtles aren't too snuggly

Edited on July 1, 2008 at 2:43 AM Quote

Sorry, Saviour was the wrong word, I feel if a person has a relationship with some God that they trust has saved ANYTHING, and they have faith they can trust their God, they aren't totally alone. I used the word saviour without thinking first, and wasn't referring to Christ :) I've heard some refer to God as their saviour so I'm confused. If you believe in God you have faith in something, that's really what I was alluding to. If you talk to God and he's their for you doesn't God become a faith that serves as a type of saviour ? What does faith in God mean ? I don't know. I never saw God save or help or spare anything, just take others away from loved ones.

You have a relationship with God it seems, or are developing one. What purpose does he serve for you, if not to spare and save and protect, or become a positive force ?

Edited on July 1, 2008 at 3:19 AM Quote

Regarding that 10 day period of atonement between Rosh Hashonna and Yom Kippur, THAT was hell for me as a child. I was told "God is watching, can read your thoughts, and based upon this ten day period will decide whether you live or die within the course of the following year". So I went to synagogue in exchange for hoping I'd live another year. Well, additionally tell a kid not to think bad thoughts, and the fear of thinking the bad thoughts creates a few... Not to mention bringing a younger child to those awful Yitzker services when folks are crying and the Rabbi reads the mourners Kaddish. I just couldn't wait for the Cantor to blow the dang Shofar and the Rabbi to say "Happy New year and may God write you all in the book of life for the following year" because that meant I could start safely thinking nasty thoughts again. Whether Reform, Conservative, or Orthodox, God was very scary. I never felt loved by the guy personally. I figured it was easier for him to throw a lightening bolt from the sky and hit me with it than talk to me and introduce himself. Only difference between my thoughts today compared to those of 40 years ago, is that I'm more convinced the lightening bolt will hit me than I am there's a God that gives a damn about me. Despite what ANYBODY told me, I became convinced the judgemental God in the sky (that was so powerful) served one purpose, and that was to widdle down the human population weeding out what he deemed to be riff-raff. Hopefully he doesn't know I live in this condo complex, if-so I'm in trouble

Edited on July 1, 2008 at 4:26 AM Quote

Hi JoJo..

I've enjoyed your posts. I can't really add to the discussion because I'm not Jewish. I do believe in Jesus but I believe that Jesus was/is God. So, through Him God did show Himself to us and how loving He is. I don't however believe that you can't have a relationship with God without believing in Jesus because the way I look at it...Jesus is God so if a person believes in God..they also believe in Jesus whether they think so or not. Anyway, this is just my opinion.
I agree with you that God loves us beyond our comprehension. I think He desires for everyone to share in that love.

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Hmm to get into this discussion of belief or not now that is a question ... Jewish OK I'm in the boat but organized religions are mostly groups of people trying to get a special handle on a Gods or G-d .... and you won't find any organized religion that even follows all their professed beliefs..... so where does that leave you .... I think basicly very close to where you are JoJo.... G-d is personal and the only handle you can get on him is inside yourself..... This is after going through several religions and coming out the other side so to speak...... I have seen true miracles done by the most simple people with no horn blowing, etc..... The only requirement I can find for knowing G-d is the opening of you thoughts or mind to him and being honest with what ever you receive ..... I'm not trying to preach.... just saying what I feel .... I like how you've realized that your not going to get everything you ask for .... I don't think G-d runs a K-mart but you'll find what you really need in his store..... G-d is Benevolent but he won't give you candy to ruin your teeth..... or things that will ruin you life...... the only purpose is to help you develope to a point where you can evolve to fill a higher purpose.... (I'm not talking reincarnation) Like all other life (birds, mammals, etc) we are already born with true basic instincts of what we should do it's that we just have to find the key.... sounds like you have the baskic key "LOVE" .. well enough for now haven't jabbered like this for awhile....
But G-d bless and keep listening

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Thks for listening to my ramblings -- I understand that you have Jewish roots -- I don't know how deep they are -- some Jews are like Christians or Gentiles they are just born that way and assume that is their preordained destiny to be Jewish, Christian, Moslem, etc....... I was luck in that my Grandfather taught me to look beyond the box I was in -- which also ment also looking at the outside of the box to see what was written on it.....

I found that the list of ingredients listed on the outside didn't match what was on the inside..... as our Friend Stephen said.... where was this great life it seemed to promise -- a secure, great, happy solid life....... luckly for me I overcame the metal damaged caused by someone trying to force me into an un-natural mold built on customs, and fear which it sounds like Stephn hasn't
I decided to follow my natural instincts..... which I believed that if there is a G-d he would have given me a good set of instincts when he created me..... but the hardest part was being honest with myself about what I wanted and expected.....

I decided that the best way was to go only to the source and check it out myself... No so many Jews actually read the bible.... They read books about it, interpretations (Talmud etc)... I decide this was like getting a copy of a copy of a copy until you probably wouldn't recognize the original thought....... I all so had to decide if I had a brain and could use it... And of course there's hundreds if not thousands of books..... one day I read in one of the minor prophets that even G-d was fed up with all the traditions and customes that the Jewish people had created..... wow and that was written almost 3,000 years ago.... and things hadn't changed since then only gotten worse...... I then remembered something my Grandfather had said to me alot ..... "it doen't matter how times you go through the Torah .. it's how many times it goes through you.. also that even an idiot can understand it and you not an Idiot.....

Well I've proceeded on this bases most of my life so far and I have no regrets.... I've found my own mold to fit into... I like knowing that I'm unique and one of a kind and I think G-d prefers it that way.... it would be boring having everyone the same.....

Bye for now ...Frank

Edited on July 3, 2008 at 3:23 AM Quote

Hey argue about what..... I don't think anyone can get a corner on G-d.... we can't define him if anything he will define us to his pleasure....... the trick is self honesty.... by being honest to ourselves we are being honest to G-d because we are then open to his influence in our lives.... I think that is the only true course of action for anyone that wants to know or even prove God..... in fact G-d even makes that invitation in the old testament.... "prove that I am G-d" now that doesn't sound like blind faith to me ..... most people that want to know if there is a G-d aren't willing to move on inch to prove him..... yeah they do say if there is a G-d why is all this terrible stuff happening around the world so there musn't be a God... on the other hand they wouldn't want a God that would tell them what to do to straighten out the mess they want him to do it for them or keep his mouth (so to speak) shut...... Now I do believe in the God of Judaism but I feel that most Jews don't know who or what G-d is .... They have lost the reason they are here and don't know even who they are anymore..... they don't know why Israel exists or the Jewish nation or people and if there really isn't any purpose to all the mess that is going on in Israel..... most that do believe in Israel are stumbling along on blind faith with a sputtering candle on a dark windy night........ The Christians want Israel to exist so their Idea of a messiah can be fullfilled... the Jews want him to come so that he can prove to the world that they've been right and they have God in their back pocket and can rule the world the Jewish way...... wow what a mess...... one giant power struggle.... as you, I don't really fit into any of those molds === I read , I think, I pray and trust that G-d will give me some understand..... if I don't try to push my ideas down his throat.....

Bye
Frank

Edited on July 6, 2008 at 1:07 PM Quote

Frank123 wrote:Hey argue about what..... I don't think anyone can get a corner on G-d.... we can't define him if anything he will define us to his pleasure....... the trick is self honesty.... by being honest to ourselves we are being honest to G-d because we are then open to his influence in our lives.... I think that is the only true course of action for anyone that wants to know or even prove God..... in fact G-d even makes that invitation in the old testament.... "prove that I am G-d" now that doesn't sound like blind faith to me ..... most people that want to know if there is a G-d aren't willing to move on inch to prove him..... yeah they do say if there is a G-d why is all this terrible stuff happening around the world so there musn't be a God... on the other hand they wouldn't want a God that would tell them what to do to straighten out the mess they want him to do it for them or keep his mouth (so to speak) shut...... Now I do believe in the God of Judaism but I feel that most Jews don't know who or what G-d is .... They have lost the reason they are here and don't know even who they are anymore..... they don't know why Israel exists or the Jewish nation or people and if there really isn't any purpose to all the mess that is going on in Israel..... most that do believe in Israel are stumbling along on blind faith with a sputtering candle on a dark windy night........ The Christians want Israel to exist so their Idea of a messiah can be fullfilled... the Jews want him to come so that he can prove to the world that they've been right and they have God in their back pocket and can rule the world the Jewish way...... wow what a mess...... one giant power struggle.... as you, I don't really fit into any of those molds === I read , I think, I pray and trust that G-d will give me some understand..... if I don't try to push my ideas down his throat.....

Bye
Frank

Jesus didn't fit the idea of Messiah that the Jews had in their minds, that is what kept them from believing.

he wasn't rich, handsome, a powerful ruler, dictator, he didn't run around with phylacteries and ornamental robes praying for the eyes of men.

He didn't come and take over Israel like was expected. So certainly in the eyes of the Letter of the Law Jews, he couldn't have been Messiah.

I am fortunate enough to have a Rabbi friend who has given me both historical and spiritual insight about the heritage of the Jewish nation.

He believes Jesus is the Messiah. He says there are so many practices the Jews do that regard and honor Jesus that they don't even understand.

it's fascinating to talk with him... someone who can read the Hebrew text and communicate it in such a way the scriptures come alive.

YHWH is the Father, Son and Spirit.

who is the son but Jesus?

Edited on July 7, 2008 at 3:45 PM Quote

JoJo,
I hesitated to respond to this thread before now. Some things have recently happened that make me feel I do need to respond. Well. I want to any way. ;-)

My spiritual journey is a rather convoluted one. It is not of the Jewish faith or even Judeans. However, it does include a lot of study of the Torah and Tanakh.

Where I have ended up for this moment in time is believing in some kind of force external to humankind that set things in motion resulting ultimately in humans coming into being. I've done the Jesus as Messiah routine. Now I'm back to questioning just about everything except the existence of that external force.

I happen to believe there is a positive and a negative force. Call them by whatever names float one's boat. I do not live in fear or dread of the benevolent force. I actually do not even fear or dread the malevolent one. I respect them both. I also admit I have extremely limited understanding of spiritual matters. I sure as blazes can't begin to justify or prove the existence of these forces I believe are at play.

Another tenet of what I believe is each individual has a journey to make regarding spirituality. That can and does take a gazillion and one directions. I do not presume to have a clue what is truth, fact or fiction. I only know what seems to work for my emotional and spiritual needs.

This doesn't really address your original question but I hope it is not an imposition that I added this post.

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As I have said in other threads, I believe that everyone worships in their own way. I pray that you will find what you seek. You seem to be a good hearted person. And that is something I am finding more and more of. I keep getting amazed everyday at how many good hearted people there are in the world. My hope keeps getting refreshed every day. As a pastor, I have been going through a lot as far as my faith is concerned. I have been talking to God about the world and all that is going on, and I firmly believe that we are in the last days. I just pray I can reach people and let them know that God is real, and he wants to be part of their everyday lives and not just when trials and tribulations happen. The rest is between them and God. I only need to plant the seed and let God handle the rest. I cannot walk their walk with God for them. They must do that themselves. I will pray that you find what you are seeking. And you are right, too many people have become "Churchified". I believe God is everywhere and not just in church. When I got saved, I was nowhere near a church. And every church I have ever been to only wanted people's money. I just want to spread the message of God's love. No currency needed or wanted. God bless, My Friend.

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Hi Jojo, I read this a few days ago but felt I had to think about things a while before I responded.

I am Jewish and was raised in the religion, and although I am not religious today and no longer attend synagogue, I still consider myself a Jew and always will. I am just not a fan of organized religion, and like you have seen a lot of hypocrisy, in many different religions and in many different ways.

When I was a kid my parents sent me to Sunday school and I believed in God without question....it was what we were taught and at the time it wasn't something I questioned, probably, at least in part out of fear. But as I grew older, I started to consider myself an agnostic. I passed on having a bat mitzvah and thankfully my parents didn't push it. Lots of bad things happened and I started to question God's existence. My grandparents also threatened to disown me and my siblings if we didn't marry a Jew. My sister had a long term relationship with a Catholic man for years and we thought they might get married and she kept it a secret because she was afraid of the consequences if my grandparents found out. It caused a lot of resentment in my family.

Most of my boyfriends in my teens and twenties were Jewish. It wasn't intentional, it just turned out that way. But I wound up marrying someone who wasn't Jewish. My grandfather refused to meet him and wound up dying without ever knowing my husband. All this time I questioned God's existence.

When I met my husband, he didn't really have any "religion". His mother was a Christian, but he felt her behavior was hypocritical and wasn't sure Christianity was for him. He explored Judaism as well, but I don't think he really felt any concrete connection to it, and I've never been one to shove religion down anyone's throat. I also felt all this exploration was healthy, and that he was really learning something.

Then he met a friend at work who turned him on to Christianity in a way that I felt was rather hardcore. All of a sudden, my husband was "saved"....he began telling me that it was the only way, that I was going to go to hell if I didn't convert, and he tried to get me to go to church with him too. The more he tried, the more I resisted...and I began to think that perhaps I was an atheist. My husband, who had always been so open minded, was now speaking out against homosexuality and things he'd never had a problem with before. It was tearing our marriage apart. And it also seemed as though he was putting other friends before our marriage - things he shouldn't have done. That made me think of him as a hypocrite and I began to consider divorce. I told him this but he said he didn't want to get divorced. We went back and forth for a long time.

Over time, things continued to deteriorate, although my husband started to go to church less and stopped trying to preach to me all the time. He continued to put relationships with friends before our marriage until things almost reached the breaking point.

Then one day about four years ago he came to me and said he realized certain people he socialized with hadn't been respecting me, and that he was going to end those destructive relationships, because he didn't want to lose me. He also said he realized he hadn't been a good husband and wanted to try and improve our relationship. I'll admit I wasn't the easiest to get along with at the time either, mostly out of defensiveness toward what I saw as objectionable behavior by my husband.

Well, my husband kept his promise. We have a very strong relationship today, even though we don't hold the same religious views. But we respect each others' right to hold those views. And I do believe in God today. I think it's because I saw God in my husband. I believe it was God who enabled him to change for the better. He still considers himself a Christian and if that is what a Christian is like than I say more power to him. He is one of the most non-judgmental, loving, giving and open people I've ever known - much more so than I am in a lot of ways - and I think he's made me a better person.

For me, God is a higher power that I have a personal relationship with. I feel as though God helps me to see things more clearly, and calms me down when I get upset over things I shouldn't. I sometimes think I see God in certain people. And I also think some people desperately want you to believe he's there but really isn't, and it is reflected in their actions.

Anyhow, sorry for rambling on. Your story is beautiful and thank you for sharing it!

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Just droppin by to read what folks have been saying --- very interesting reading......

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JoJo,
I know you said you don't believe in Jesus. But to the Jew who does have a relationship with G_d they soon will find out that Jesus is the Messiah He is God in the flesh. God in deity.

I had something entirely different to say because I am dear friends with a Rabbi who believes Jesus is Messiah.

anyways... I sincerely pray that you will receive your answer

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JoJo, do you believe that there WILL be a Messiah? And, if so...what is He suppose to be like? I'm asking because I'm truly interested in learning what you believe. Also, why is it that you don't believe it was Jesus?

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JoJoGal wrote:Wow, I haven't been around for a few days, haven't been feeling well, but..... lots of interesting things have been added. I appreciate each and every one of your posts, and find them quite interesting.

I do have to say to Bodacioushahas though, that just because your Rabbi friend believes in Jesus, doesn't mean that every Jew who has a relationship with God will. I have had a relationship with God for many years, and still do not Believe that Jesus is the messiah.

I totally understand what you're saying but when I say "relationship with GOD" I mean a full, selfless relationship with GOD. Seeking to know Who He is and if you really do and are open to the revelation of His will in your life you will find Jesus there as well.

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Bodacioushahas, I respectfully disagree with you. Not every person that has a spiritual relationship is going to end up at the same place you have on your journey. You may hope for that outcome. You may share your belief and journey with others in an effort to encourage them to reach the same outcome. That still does not mean they are going to do so. They very well may have a totally satisfying belief system that is completely different from you.

Telling someone what they must believe is like that old cliché of you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Can drown the sucker but ya can't make it drink. Same with attempting to force what one believes upon another. Ain't gonna work. Beliefs come from the inside. They ain't like a coat you can put on and take off at will.

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peachygurl wrote:Bodacioushahas, I respectfully disagree with you. Not every person that has a spiritual relationship is going to end up at the same place you have on your journey. You may hope for that outcome. You may share your belief and journey with others in an effort to encourage them to reach the same outcome. That still does not mean they are going to do so. They very well may have a totally satisfying belief system that is completely different from you.

Telling someone what they must believe is like that old cliché of you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Can drown the sucker but ya can't make it drink. Same with attempting to force what one believes upon another. Ain't gonna work. Beliefs come from the inside. They ain't like a coat you can put on and take off at will.

I understand what you are saying Peachy and I appreciate your kindess in your response.

I think it is a personal matter but I stand by my words. But not everyone will understand what I am saying until they actually go through it.
that's ok.
it's not my job to force anyone to do anything. I was just communicating the wonderful experience that is awaiting people should they choose it.

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Bodacioushahas wrote:JoJo,
I know you said you don't believe in Jesus. But to the Jew who does have a relationship with G_d they soon will find out that Jesus is the Messiah He is God in the flesh. God in deity.

I had something entirely different to say because I am dear friends with a Rabbi who believes Jesus is Messiah.

anyways... I sincerely pray that you will receive your answer

well you make the same mistake many have made you can not claim that Jesus is God in the flesh or even God.... The messiah would be God's representitive.... not God...
Jesus said that He didn't think it wrong to claim to be equal to God but made himself subject to His Father....
In Revelations he says that only when he has put all things under him will he turn his throne over to G-d the Father...
if he is G-d in the flesh then there would be two G-d's in heaven at this moment in time ... a conflict of leadership... by claiming that Jesus is the Messiah and G-d also you... subtract from the sacrifice of the Messiah and his trust in G-d and the love he had to subject himself to G-d..... A son can represent his father, as if he is his father and with all the authority of his father but can never replace or be his father....... If your going to accept the Torah, Bible, Holy Scripture, etc.... you can not tear out parts that disagree with someone's idea.... you must be honest to yourself and to G-d's revelation in your life.... look outside of the box of religious cliches and accepted beliefs....... there is A TRUTH and if it is true then all things will fit into it....... if there is conflict of thought then your not understanding the whole truth..... like a tapesty each thread of truth can enhance and/or change the picture.... but Biblicly you can not prove Jesus is G-d. All you can prove is that he thought himself equal to G-d (not G-d) and made himself subject to G-d. This N.T.statement only has meaning if he subjected himself before he would have become the Messiah..........

Make sure you know which Jewish Messiah your following.......as a Jew I'm careful about my Messiah...... There is a following of a new Messiah going on now amongest some Jewish sects.....

I agree with your wrds If you know G-d you will know the Messiah..... The fact being that few people know G-d
and you can't know G-d without knowing the Jewish people and Israel.... Am I right in assuming that your Jewish?????

Anyway luv ya'all......
Frank

Edited on July 15, 2008 at 5:50 PM Quote

Hey JoJO just wanted to apologize if I might upset anyone with my ramblings.... just don't like linear thinking so much.... I like your statement that you've broadened your Jewishness by checking out other beliefs ... says alot about your mental health...... stay outa the box gal........G-d's a radical thinker....

Frank

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Frank123 wrote:

Bodacioushahas wrote:JoJo,
I know you said you don't believe in Jesus. But to the Jew who does have a relationship with G_d they soon will find out that Jesus is the Messiah He is God in the flesh. God in deity.

I had something entirely different to say because I am dear friends with a Rabbi who believes Jesus is Messiah.

anyways... I sincerely pray that you will receive your answer

well you make the same mistake many have made you can not claim that Jesus is God in the flesh or even God.... The messiah would be God's representitive.... not God...
Jesus said that He didn't think it wrong to claim to be equal to God but made himself subject to His Father....
In Revelations he says that only when he has put all things under him will he turn his throne over to G-d the Father...
if he is G-d in the flesh then there would be two G-d's in heaven at this moment in time ... a conflict of leadership... by claiming that Jesus is the Messiah and G-d also you... subtract from the sacrifice of the Messiah and his trust in G-d and the love he had to subject himself to G-d..... A son can represent his father, as if he is his father and with all the authority of his father but can never replace or be his father....... If your going to accept the Torah, Bible, Holy Scripture, etc.... you can not tear out parts that disagree with someone's idea.... you must be honest to yourself and to G-d's revelation in your life.... look outside of the box of religious cliches and accepted beliefs....... there is A TRUTH and if it is true then all things will fit into it....... if there is conflict of thought then your not understanding the whole truth..... like a tapesty each thread of truth can enhance and/or change the picture.... but Biblicly you can not prove Jesus is G-d. All you can prove is that he thought himself equal to G-d (not G-d) and made himself subject to G-d. This N.T.statement only has meaning if he subjected himself before he would have become the Messiah..........

Make sure you know which Jewish Messiah your following.......as a Jew I'm careful about my Messiah...... There is a following of a new Messiah going on now amongest some Jewish sects.....

I agree with your wrds If you know G-d you will know the Messiah..... The fact being that few people know G-d
and you can't know G-d without knowing the Jewish people and Israel.... Am I right in assuming that your Jewish?????

Anyway luv ya'all......
Frank

First of all, no I am not a Jew but I believe I am Abraham's seed and therefore by grace and faith accepted as a chosen one.

The book of John the first couple of verses in chapter 1 will clearly tell you that Jesus is the Word of God made flesh and that He was in the beginning with God and that nothing was made that wasn't made through Him.

Also Jesus says "if you have seen the Me you have seen the Father for He and I are One"

I think trying to comprehend that in a literal sense is the mistake some make. Jesus is the same deity as the Father, but He had to Himself become the sacrifice for mankind and to do that came in the form of a human born of a human and of the Holy Spirit.
Jesus wasn't just a representative for God, He was/is God manifested in the flesh representing Himself.

What confuses many is how could Jesus talk to Himself while on earth if He was God? Well the answer is Jesus was God in a limited form come down from Heaven to be the example of how to live how to seek the Father, pray to the Father and live for the Father.
Jesus in the flesh manifestation was not the fullness of God but was a limited form. He could only do that which He saw the Father do.

Why is this?

I have come to understand that the flesh and the spirit do not communicate, it is our spirit that communicate with God's Holy Spirit.
We are limited in our flesh, it wasn't until Jesus had the Spirit come upon Him during baptism that He received the Holy Spirit.
ON the cross it is recorded that Jesus said "Father, into Your hands I commit My Spirit"
then Jesus gave the Spirit to the believers who would believe and receive Him.

I know it's a lot to chew on and possibly I missed answering your question in pursuit of explaining what I have learned forgive me for that.

I try to make things short I am just so passionate about Jesus I cant help it.

Edited on July 15, 2008 at 6:52 PM Quote

Sorry don't know of a link to this info about a Jewish sect following a Messiah.... Just living in Israel I've seen the billboards and know some who believe it..... it is a branch of the Habad that follow the Rabbi Lubavitch. They believe that he will be resurrected as the Messiah.....I have not gone into any depth on the subject... archelogical evidence has recently been uncovered predating Jesus about a Jewish belief that the Messiah will die and be resurrected on the third day but the Lubavitch Rabbi has been dead about 2 years????
I don't believe that he ever claimed directly to being the Messiah.......
But this is what what happens when people stop thinking and start following someone with blind faith..... God never asked for blind faith.... just honesty and steadfastness...most men when they get political or spiritual power over people become corrupted..... do as I say and not as I do......If your interested in understanding G-d OK .... but I have found that in a lot of Jewish belief is a hidden attempt to understand G-d to control him.... Ha ... if he is G-d who can control him... and if you can't understand Him ... of course this is the basis of most of Christianity as well trying to corner the Market on G-d..... that's why there are so many variations on a theme...... it's like the 3 blind men trying to describe an elephant..... one holding the trunk says it's like a snake..... one holding the leg that it's like a tree. ... the one holding the tail says it's like a rope.... I have yet to hear anyone really explain G-d.....Jesus (NT) "if you knew/understood my father you would know/understand me"..... If you truly want to know truth start at the beginning ... let go of the ego and find out/understand all you can about G-d ..... It"s the best way to enjoy living, understand yourself and what's going on in this world.........Here's a question in Gen. 1:1-4 what do you thing G-d really did..........what actually happened???????

getting a headache from all this thinkin and ramblin on.....have a good day friends

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Hey JoJo I'm going to sit back and listen for awhile don't want to take over this thread... like a guy talking with his head in a bucket... it sounds good but the echo will deafen ya......... Frank

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puttin up my feet and leanin back

Edited on July 16, 2008 at 1:25 AM Quote

JoJoGal wrote:

Bodacioushahas wrote:JoJo,

I had something entirely different to say because I am dear friends with a Rabbi who believes Jesus is Messiah.

anyways... I sincerely pray that you will receive your answer

You know, after I responded to you earlier, I now have to say after thinking about it, that your Rabbi friend, if he truly believes in Jesus, is no longer a Rabbi. He may lead a messianic synagogue, but, that would make him a pastor, not a Rabbi. If he has truly accepted Jesus into his life, and claims to have been "saved", then he has given up Judaism, and can no longer be a Rabbi.

Well to my understanding Rabbi means "teacher" in the Hebrew and he is very much still a teacher of the Word. He says the term "messianic Jew" is offensive to the Jewish culture but he understands there is no offense to be called that.
He does lead a Messianic Synagogue which is constantly being threatened by a group called the Cowboy Nazi's.
His life is threatened on a weekly basis, he has has to relocate his home and his synagogue on several occassions. He is such a wonderful man, he worships Yeshua with ever fiber of his being.

I esteem him very highly and his courage is unmatched by anyone I have ever known.

Edited on July 16, 2008 at 1:28 PM Quote

Gonna try this one more time..I don't know if my posts are getting covered up by others or if I'm being ignored deliberately.

scarlettohall wrote:JoJo, do you believe that there WILL be a Messiah? And, if so...what is He suppose to be like? I'm asking because I'm truly interested in learning what you believe. Also, why is it that you don't believe it was Jesus?

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Frank123 wrote:Here's a question in Gen. 1:1-4 what do you thing G-d really did..........what actually happened???????

God saw the light was good and chose the light over the darkness...

who could ever try to understand such depth? do you have an idea on that scripture?

I really struggle with that question because to get a grasp on the unfathomable idea that G_d always was is impossible.

Genesis says that G-d Father Son and Spirit spoke the world into existence (LORD) YWHW the triune being of G-d

Who could possibly explain it? there isn't any answer suitable or even close to worthy to be associated with His Name.

I still try to comprehend how He said "Let there be" and there was but when it came to mankind He said "Let US make man in our own image" Let US. (meaning of course Father Spirit and Son)

it's just mind boggling

Edited on July 16, 2008 at 1:38 PM Quote

I read the first post by the host of the thread. She church hopped for years. Hypocrites in the church? I found that there were some also. But, as anyone would expect, that is where you would expect to find hypocrites! And, in fact, that is the best place for hypocrites to be. Perhaps someday their eyes will be opened and they will change.

I have always known, and the bible has always taught, that religion is not a good thing. Religion is a drag. Do's and don't etc. etc. But if a person has attended a church where the gospel is preached, they surely know that salvation is not by being "good" or "turning over a new leaf" etc. It is about what God through Jesus did for us. Not what we can do for ourselves. I leanred this the first time I attended church. I go to church, love it, know there are hypocrites there, overlook it, and do not let them get in the way of my own spiritual development.

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Bodacioushahas-- Answered
God saw the light was good and chose the light over the darkness...

who could ever try to understand such depth? do you have an idea on that scripture?

First go back and re read the verses..... God chose the light?? don't think so..... and he did a few things before getting to the light part........ read those verses for a few days and try to find the meaning between the lines.....try to connect this to the verse ....The lamb slain before the foundation of the earth.... since these verses are descirbing that period.......remember that God's time isn't linear but both the beginning and the end results are simulltaneous facts...

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Frank123 wrote:Bodacioushahas-- Answered
God saw the light was good and chose the light over the darkness...

who could ever try to understand such depth? do you have an idea on that scripture?

First go back and re read the verses..... God chose the light?? don't think so..... and he did a few things before getting to the light part........ read those verses for a few days and try to find the meaning between the lines.....try to connect this to the verse ....The lamb slain before the foundation of the earth.... since these verses are descirbing that period.......remember that God's time isn't linear but both the beginning and the end results are simulltaneous facts...

I didn't read it in full context because you specifically asked about Gen 1:4.

I will do that though...it interests me.

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Blaze909 wrote:I read the first post by the host of the thread. She church hopped for years. Hypocrites in the church? I found that there were some also. But, as anyone would expect, that is where you would expect to find hypocrites! And, in fact, that is the best place for hypocrites to be. Perhaps someday their eyes will be opened and they will change.

I have always known, and the bible has always taught, that religion is not a good thing. Religion is a drag. Do's and don't etc. etc. But if a person has attended a church where the gospel is preached, they surely know that salvation is not by being "good" or "turning over a new leaf" etc. It is about what God through Jesus did for us. Not what we can do for ourselves. I leanred this the first time I attended church. I go to church, love it, know there are hypocrites there, overlook it, and do not let them get in the way of my own spiritual development.

Hypocrites in church????? NO WAY!!! you mean PEOPLE????
There are PEOPLE in CHURCH????

say it isn't so...

well duh sorry to be condescending but where you find people you find hypocrisy. Everyone has been a hypocrite in their lifetime.

Don't lie... you have too.

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Reply by BodacioushahasGOLD on July 17, 2008 at 4:13 AM
Bodacioushahas has self control but lost her remote

Blaze909 wrote:
I read the first post by the host of the thread. She church hopped for years. Hypocrites in the church? I found that there were some also. But, as anyone would expect, that is where you would expect to find hypocrites! And, in fact, that is the best place for hypocrites to be. Perhaps someday their eyes will be opened and they will change.

I have always known, and the bible has always taught, that religion is not a good thing. Religion is a drag. Do's and don't etc. etc. But if a person has attended a church where the gospel is preached, they surely know that salvation is not by being "good" or "turning over a new leaf" etc. It is about what God through Jesus did for us. Not what we can do for ourselves. I leanred this the first time I attended church. I go to church, love it, know there are hypocrites there, overlook it, and do not let them get in the way of my own spiritual development.

Hypocrites in church????? NO WAY!!! you mean PEOPLE????
There are PEOPLE in CHURCH????

say it isn't so...

well duh sorry to be condescending but where you find people you find hypocrisy. Everyone has been a hypocrite in their lifetime.

Don't lie... you have too
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Well, I think it goes without saying that it takes a person to have a hypocrite. That is not the argument. And you are correct in your assumption that ALL people are hypocrites at one time or another. But in the context here we are speaking of those individuals who go to church, not to worship, but to be part of a "social club enviroment" strictly for the purpose of self advancement. Those who use the church to improve their own self image in the community.

When it comes to hypocrisy, a good argument could be made that the majority of Christians are hypocritical in one way. Here I am referring to the great commission as given to believers by Jesus Himself. Christians by their very nature are susposed to "reproduce" themselves by telling other people the good news of the gospel in the hope that the Holy Spirit will convict the person and they will accept Jesus as their Savior. All Christians know about the command to witness and tell others about salvation through Jesus. But, honestly, how many Christians ever lead another person to Christ? Sadly, not very many. They know that they are susposed to be a verbal witness as well as a living witness by their lifestyle, but most Christians never open their mouth to share the salvation message with another. This, in itself, could be counted as the greatest hypocrisy of most Christians.

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I also feel that everyone has the right to believe as they choose. I thought that I could come into this thread and learn something about the Jewish faith...I asked a question twice and had to finally go elsewhere to get an answer. :(

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It used to be that the Jewish religion followed the Old Testament Scarletto. Christ was never mentioned in our synagogues, moses was...

How things are today, I have no idea.. Most Jewish people believed in the old Testament.

Now regarding what "Jews" believe, I suppose like all other religions that depends on whether or not they are "practicing Jews".. I am not, however since my mother was jewish AND my father was jewish, I am "A Jew" that does not believe in a Jewish God.

Edited on July 18, 2008 at 1:37 PM Quote

I understand that part, Kappy. My question was IS there suppose to be a Messiah and how would one know who it was? Or that was the jest of my question anyway. I mean is there a description or what?

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To my recollection the Jewish religion (and I'm not including messianic jews) believe that God is so very different from man, there is no mention of a Messianic concept in the Torah (as I recall, I might be wrong). This is a fundamental difference between Judaism and the Christian religions.. Jews do not believe there can ever be a human representation of "God". Closest I know of to a Messiah might be a "spiritual afterlife", yet I don't think the jewish religion believes we can know. It believes there have been many false prophets, but humans have limitations to know certain aspects of God, and what he has planned for the future is something man can not know. There might be signs it's coming (and I think that derived later in judaism)... I really don't recall this.

The Jewish religion follows the Torah, and there's nothing of a "coming of the messiah" mentioned. Might've been mentioned a few times in LONG past history.
I'm inclined to think, No.. Formally, Jews do not, and are not supposed to believe in "A Messiah". There is one God, and he shall remain separate from Man, The God of the Heavens I suppose.

Unless Moses throwing the tablets down from Mt Sinai was the end of our Messiah ? I forgot, Did God speak to the Jews thru Moses ? I think he did, but he was pretty angry, and that was it..LOL

Something like that... There will be no "coming of the Messiah", Moses was it ? He appeared as a Fiery ball ? Sheesh, this is all so vague

I'll have to ask my dad

Edited on July 18, 2008 at 2:11 PM Quote

Oh okay, I was under the impression that they were waiting for a Messiah and he hadn't come yet. Thanks, Kappy

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