Gay and lesbian marriage

Monique wrote:

criss_cross wrote:There is no argument that behavior can be influenced by conditioning. But sexual orientation IS NOT a behavior.

I agree, to a point. One can choose to act on their feeling or choose not to. That part is the behavior.

A woman looking at a woman and feeling sexual attraction is an urge. Acting on it is a behavior. One, I believe is a conscious choice.

Is that urge a result of behavior, perhaps a natural behavior?

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[quote=criss_cross][quote=rojerio][quote=criss_cross]Classical conditioning (also Pavlovian or respondent conditioning) is a form of associative learning that was first demonstrated by Ivan Pavlov.[1] The typical procedure for inducing classical conditioning involves presentations of a neutral stimulus along with a stimulus of some significance. The neutral stimulus could be any event that does not result in an overt behavioral response from the organism under investigation. Pavlov referred to this as a conditioned stimulus (CS). Conversely, presentation of the significant stimulus necessarily evokes an innate, often reflexive, response. Pavlov called these the unconditioned stimulus (US) and unconditioned response (UR), respectively. If the CS and the US are repeatedly paired, eventually the two stimuli become associated and the organism begins to produce a behavioral response to the CS. Pavlov called this the conditioned response (CR).

Popular forms of classical conditioning that are used to study neural structures and functions that underlie learning and memory include fear conditioning, eyeblink conditioning, and the foot contraction conditioning of Hermissenda crassicornis.

How does that relate to sexual orientation? I sure could not tell you. Stormshadow...wanna give it a shot?[/quote]

Here again, CRICRO, outstanding .....save me time and I'm
not sure I could have explained it in that fashion....high five....[/quote]I'd love to take credit but it is a copy n paste. lol. But...it is a copy n paste that is credible and that I understand. hehe.[/quote]

....Gotcha! And make perfect sense to many of us.....not all....get my drift.......Thanx for clearing that up for me

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you really thought I was smart enough to have come up with that on my own rojero? ;-P

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Stormshaedow wrote:

rojerio wrote:

Stormshaedow wrote:I think you can be conditioned to do and feel just about anything... Otherwise Pavlov was a liar...

Pavlov used conditioning through pleasure rewards in this case .....food at the ring of a bell....it was a need and indeed a pleasure......he did not delve in to feelings other than the dog feeling satisfied and happy for having his needs fulfilled....and only observed through the body language of the dog....this is a given of living organisms

Stormshaedow.......question.....can you be conditioned to feel an orgasm when that event is no longer available in your physical and sexual capable abilitiles....?

Orgasm? Don't know, but I do know that sexual arousal can be linked to outside stimuli not normally associated with with arousal...

.....if you are physically and sexually incapable? C'mon
answer my question then support it......

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criss_cross wrote:you really thought I was smart enough to have come up with that on my own rojero? ;-P

Yeah , Criss...... smart fella you are....!

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Miss_diva wrote:dont know where this might go but ok. I'm sure this has been done and what not but. What I want to know is, What is your opinion on it? what is your reasoning and dont use the bible or say that it says it wrong in the bible, what is yours and you alone? and dont mention for the procreation of humans cause a lesbian can have a gay guys kid and if you cant understand how than i'm sorry for you.. but anyways whats your reason? against or for?

I think the word marriage is overrated anyway, since more than half of them end up in divorce. So civil unions with the exact same legal benefits and rights as what married men and women have. Otherwise I don't think it's fair.

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rojerio wrote:

criss_cross wrote:you really thought I was smart enough to have come up with that on my own rojero? ;-P

Yeah , Criss...... smart fella you are....!

LOL wish i had your confidence in my intelligence.

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Fritz Klein did some rather detailed work into defining sexual orientation. It brings in the fluidity aspect alluded to earlier in this thread. Interesting reading if one is so inclined to check it out.

Edited on May 29, 2009 at 12:45 AM Permalink

Miss_diva wrote:

snackstix wrote:

Miss_diva wrote:dont know where this might go but ok. I'm sure this has been done and what not but. What I want to know is, What is your opinion on it? what is your reasoning and dont use the bible or say that it says it wrong in the bible, what is yours and you alone? and dont mention for the procreation of humans cause a lesbian can have a gay guys kid and if you cant understand how than i'm sorry for you.. but anyways whats your reason? against or for?

My answer is....yes people can be invitro for kids without a man being physically there......and yes a gay guy if he chose could father a child, but that don't make the whole scenerio right. Jealously is still there from one side or the other or both in that case. Why even ask for someone elses opinion if you think its ok??? What difference does it make? I personally think men and women fit together. They were meant to be together. They were MADE to be together as one. Like Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Or Eve and Ann. It's not the way it was meant to be. And you say don't put what the bible says in it, but God made people, can't deny that, he told us how to live. He told us to men and women should marry not women/women/ or men/men. Anyways that's my opinion.

So than a man who beats his wife, was meant to be with her. Or woman who beats her husband was ment to be him? Or a man and a woman with no feelings towards each other whatsoever were ment to be with each other? and it it wasnt meant to be than why is it that it is?

If God didnt like that why did he make people gay or lesbian in the first place? Why arent we perfect like in his image? And why does he say that we are free to live in what ever way we choose but we have to live how he tells us to live? Its kinda like you can drive the car but i'll drive it for you.

like I said, why even ask???? people always turn things around into another topic and it gets so darn stupid. See man or womans' opinions are just that, and our ways of thinking are not God's way of thinking. Even though people want something to be right so bad, it don't mean it's right, and no one else's opinion will convince you except for what you want to think anyways. In the end, let your conscience be your guide.

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snackstix wrote:

Miss_diva wrote:

snackstix wrote:

Miss_diva wrote:dont know where this might go but ok. I'm sure this has been done and what not but. What I want to know is, What is your opinion on it? what is your reasoning and dont use the bible or say that it says it wrong in the bible, what is yours and you alone? and dont mention for the procreation of humans cause a lesbian can have a gay guys kid and if you cant understand how than i'm sorry for you.. but anyways whats your reason? against or for?

My answer is....yes people can be invitro for kids without a man being physically there......and yes a gay guy if he chose could father a child, but that don't make the whole scenerio right. Jealously is still there from one side or the other or both in that case. Why even ask for someone elses opinion if you think its ok??? What difference does it make? I personally think men and women fit together. They were meant to be together. They were MADE to be together as one. Like Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Or Eve and Ann. It's not the way it was meant to be. And you say don't put what the bible says in it, but God made people, can't deny that, he told us how to live. He told us to men and women should marry not women/women/ or men/men. Anyways that's my opinion.

So than a man who beats his wife, was meant to be with her. Or woman who beats her husband was ment to be him? Or a man and a woman with no feelings towards each other whatsoever were ment to be with each other? and it it wasnt meant to be than why is it that it is?

If God didnt like that why did he make people gay or lesbian in the first place? Why arent we perfect like in his image? And why does he say that we are free to live in what ever way we choose but we have to live how he tells us to live? Its kinda like you can drive the car but i'll drive it for you.

like I said, why even ask???? people always turn things around into another topic and it gets so darn stupid. See man or womans' opinions are just that, and our ways of thinking are not God's way of thinking. Even though people want something to be right so bad, it don't mean it's right, and no one else's opinion will convince you except for what you want to think anyways. In the end, let your conscience be your guide.

My conscience tells me it is wrong to have laws against same sex marriage. And so does my reasoning.

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"like I said, why even ask???? people always turn things around into another topic and it gets so darn stupid. See man or womans' opinions are just that, and our ways of thinking are not God's way of thinking. Even though people want something to be right so bad, it don't mean it's right, and no one else's opinion will convince you except for what you want to think anyways. In the end, let your conscience be your guide."
*********************************************
"My conscience tells me it is wrong to have laws against same sex marriage. And so does my reasoning."

obviously... the law where stamped dont mean a thing...for I have not seen a gay person been locked up for being gay in a while now...trying to remember if I ever have?.... brain loss.. help sombody... who will enforce the law.... I guess since sombody has to do it... I will enforce it.. how much is the pay.. that is a must.. I want 1000 per person that I cite.... and when I have to physically detain one, I want 1500 per.... these terms are not negoitiable... call me when you ready for me to go to work.. now hiring... needed>>>> agressive talker and muscle man/woman

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Miss_diva wrote:

snackstix wrote:

Miss_diva wrote:

snackstix wrote:

Miss_diva wrote:dont know where this might go but ok. I'm sure this has been done and what not but. What I want to know is, What is your opinion on it? what is your reasoning and dont use the bible or say that it says it wrong in the bible, what is yours and you alone? and dont mention for the procreation of humans cause a lesbian can have a gay guys kid and if you cant understand how than i'm sorry for you.. but anyways whats your reason? against or for?

My answer is....yes people can be invitro for kids without a man being physically there......and yes a gay guy if he chose could father a child, but that don't make the whole scenerio right. Jealously is still there from one side or the other or both in that case. Why even ask for someone elses opinion if you think its ok??? What difference does it make? I personally think men and women fit together. They were meant to be together. They were MADE to be together as one. Like Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Or Eve and Ann. It's not the way it was meant to be. And you say don't put what the bible says in it, but God made people, can't deny that, he told us how to live. He told us to men and women should marry not women/women/ or men/men. Anyways that's my opinion.

So than a man who beats his wife, was meant to be with her. Or woman who beats her husband was ment to be him? Or a man and a woman with no feelings towards each other whatsoever were ment to be with each other? and it it wasnt meant to be than why is it that it is?

If God didnt like that why did he make people gay or lesbian in the first place? Why arent we perfect like in his image? And why does he say that we are free to live in what ever way we choose but we have to live how he tells us to live? Its kinda like you can drive the car but i'll drive it for you.

like I said, why even ask???? people always turn things around into another topic and it gets so darn stupid. See man or womans' opinions are just that, and our ways of thinking are not God's way of thinking. Even though people want something to be right so bad, it don't mean it's right, and no one else's opinion will convince you except for what you want to think anyways. In the end, let your conscience be your guide.

I agree. What if our way of thinking isn't God's way of thinking. Then everything that has ever been thought of what God wanted probably wasn't the way he wanted. Gay and lesbian marriage along with Straight marriage is as long as two people love each other is ok in God's eye. And if you say that it is a sin for two guys or girls to fall in love than you're saying love is only intended for a man and a woman who loves. Then you are saying God is prejudice.

God is not prejudice. Loving someone else is not wrong. Sex on the other hand with a person of the same gender is. It spreads disease. Look around. How many people are dying from HIV and other sexually transmitted disease.

AIds stats in USA
AIDS diagnoses and deaths

In June 1981, the first cases of what is now known as AIDS were reported in the USA. During the 1980s, there were rapid increases in the number of AIDS cases and deaths of people with AIDS. Cases peaked with the 1993 expansion of the case definition1, and then declined. The most dramatic drops in both cases and deaths began in 1996, with the widespread use of combination antiretroviral therapy.

Since 2000 the annual numbers of AIDS diagnoses have been relatively constant, with an estimated 37,041 in 2006. In total, an estimated 1,051,875 people have been diagnosed with AIDS in America.

The death rate among people with AIDS has also remained relatively stable in recent years; there were an estimated 14,561 deaths in 2007. Since the beginning of the epidemic, an estimated 583,298 people with AIDS have died in the USA.

# one in every five people living with HIV has not even had their infection diagnosed, let alone reported.

[An estimated 3,792 children aged under 13 were living with AIDS at the end of 2007. The vast majority of these children acquired HIV from their mothers during pregnancy, labour, delivery or breastfeeding. poor kids

People with AIDS are surviving longer and are contributing to a steady increase in the number of people living with AIDS. This trend will continue as long as the number of new diagnoses exceeds the number of people dying each year.

Some stats ey? Yes, there would be less risk associated with this disease if people lived by the correct laws of nature. :)

Edited on May 29, 2009 at 1:43 PM Permalink

now see...I thought it had more to do with promiscuity

(why not encourage monogamous relationships?)

Edited on May 29, 2009 at 1:45 PM Permalink

HIV is also spread by heterosexual sex. Encouraging monogamous sexual relationships through gay marriage whould probably decrease the rate of HIV infection among gay men. And btw, the HIV infection rate among lesbians is extremely low. :-)

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ladylikepsych wrote:now see...I thought it had more to do with promiscuity

(why not encourage monogamous relationships?)

EXACTLY!! :-)

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Snax,
If you are going to quote statistics, it would be much more informative if you provided a source for your data. HIV is NOT a gay disease like you are promoting.

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These are world stats on HIV and sexual transmitted disease....very eyeopening and Peachy the links are here, and the stats speak for themselves....HIV comes from saliva with blood in it, sex between 2 people, and needles shared. The info tells all the stats I listed, how you get it.

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 11.6 million AIDS orphans.

At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 59% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.

In developing and transitional countries, 9.7 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.99 million (31%) are receiving the drugs.
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

HIV being spread mainly through homosexual relations in Spain/ http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14688

HIV/AIDS Prevention in Public Places of Homosexual Encounter. http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102277660.html

PUBLIC HEALTH
Increase of sexually transmitted infections, but not HIV, among young homosexual men in Amsterdam: are STIs still reliable markers for HIV transmission? http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

Edited on May 30, 2009 at 12:43 AM Permalink

I have never understood how same sex attracts, but I dont knock it for those who wish to partake... my personal take is it is not "natural", when reproduction is taken into account... if every one decided to go same sex and no other way... life as we know it would be over when the last female reached the age of non bearing.. after her... it would be a matter of the last human dying out that the human population would be gone forever. (I understand the need for the "Paper" for the legalities of it all in a marriage union but I don't understand why any marriage needs to be sanction by anyone when you have two consenting adults..seems to me they can be together when ever and as long as they both agree).... but logic tells me that there would have to be amends made that life continue...but as it appears to me..life has embedded deep safe gaurds of such a thing occuring..for all life, even life that we dont understand or can't see... all has a desire to live (aid virus...ect)... just thinking out loud...lol

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Snax,
I do not deny that promiscuous behavior amongst men engaged in homosexual sex contributes to HIV/AIDS. However, this topic is not talking about promiscuous behaviors. It is talking about committed relationships. Therefore, your point strikes me as irrelevant.

One could make the very same argument that prior to the widespread availability of antibiotics that sex external to marriage between a man and woman was responsible for the spread of syphilis which causes a slow painful death. One can draw the same conclusion for other forms of diseases that are transmitted via exchange of body fluids.

Does the fact that people could be KILLED due to sexual activity prior to medical treatment that is effective make any difference at all that it was due in large part to promiscuous heterosexual activity? Not to me. If you are going to call the kettle black, perhaps the pot needs to check its color.

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you ask me for the links to the statistics and thats what I provided. The links were what you said I should provide above right? ok

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snackstix wrote:you ask me for the links to the statistics and thats what I provided. The links were what you said I should provide above right? ok

Yes and I thank you for that Snax. It does point out HIV/AIDS is an expanding medical problem. Part of that is due to improved diagnostics.

Your belief is that homosexual unions even if it is between two individuals that love each other is morally wrong. My belief is that any two people that are willing and able to make a commitment to each other in a bond of love should have the opportunity to do so with a binding legal contract. We could be adult about it and agree to disagree.

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snackstix wrote:These are world stats on HIV and sexual transmitted disease....very eyeopening and Peachy the links are here, and the stats speak for themselves....HIV comes from saliva with blood in it, sex between 2 people, and needles shared. The info tells all the stats I listed, how you get it.

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 11.6 million AIDS orphans.

At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 59% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.

In developing and transitional countries, 9.7 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.99 million (31%) are receiving the drugs.
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

HIV being spread mainly through homosexual relations in Spain/ http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14688

HIV/AIDS Prevention in Public Places of Homosexual Encounter. http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102277660.html

PUBLIC HEALTH
Increase of sexually transmitted infections, but not HIV, among young homosexual men in Amsterdam: are STIs still reliable markers for HIV transmission? http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

BTW
the promiscuity in the gay male community
is not because they are gay.

It is because they are men. You do not find
the same level of what you call promiscuity
amongst lesbians
and the rate of HIV/Aids in lesbians
is lower than the average.
It makes sense
given that men have always been more sexually free than women
that when you get men with men
there will be more promiscuity.

So look to men not gays for the spread of HIV in North America. Now that would open up a whole new can of worms wouldn't it? ;-)

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walkingstick wrote:

snackstix wrote:These are world stats on HIV and sexual transmitted disease....very eyeopening and Peachy the links are here, and the stats speak for themselves....HIV comes from saliva with blood in it, sex between 2 people, and needles shared. The info tells all the stats I listed, how you get it.

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 11.6 million AIDS orphans.

At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 59% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.

In developing and transitional countries, 9.7 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.99 million (31%) are receiving the drugs.
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

HIV being spread mainly through homosexual relations in Spain/ http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14688

HIV/AIDS Prevention in Public Places of Homosexual Encounter. http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102277660.html

PUBLIC HEALTH
Increase of sexually transmitted infections, but not HIV, among young homosexual men in Amsterdam: are STIs still reliable markers for HIV transmission? http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

BTW
the promiscuity in the gay male community
is not because they are gay.

It is because they are men. You do not find
the same level of what you call promiscuity
amongst lesbians
and the rate of HIV/Aids in lesbians
is lower than the average.
It makes sense
given that men have always been more sexually free than women
that when you get men with men
there will be more promiscuity.

So look to men not gays for the spread of HIV in North America. Now that would open up a whole new can of worms wouldn't it? ;-)

yes it would...so for your logic.. I am taking your walkinstick that you not move around for a tad...lmao

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walkingstick wrote:

snackstix wrote:These are world stats on HIV and sexual transmitted disease....very eyeopening and Peachy the links are here, and the stats speak for themselves....HIV comes from saliva with blood in it, sex between 2 people, and needles shared. The info tells all the stats I listed, how you get it.

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 11.6 million AIDS orphans.

At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 59% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.

In developing and transitional countries, 9.7 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.99 million (31%) are receiving the drugs.
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

HIV being spread mainly through homosexual relations in Spain/ http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14688

HIV/AIDS Prevention in Public Places of Homosexual Encounter. http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102277660.html

PUBLIC HEALTH
Increase of sexually transmitted infections, but not HIV, among young homosexual men in Amsterdam: are STIs still reliable markers for HIV transmission? http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

BTW
the promiscuity in the gay male community
is not because they are gay.

It is because they are men. You do not find
the same level of what you call promiscuity
amongst lesbians
and the rate of HIV/Aids in lesbians
is lower than the average.
It makes sense
given that men have always been more sexually free than women
that when you get men with men
there will be more promiscuity.

So look to men not gays for the spread of HIV in North America. Now that would open up a whole new can of worms wouldn't it? ;-)

Deb,
I wasn't meaning to say that promiscuous gay men were promiscuous because they are gay. I agree with the clarification you posted.

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cwang50 wrote:

walkingstick wrote:

snackstix wrote:These are world stats on HIV and sexual transmitted disease....very eyeopening and Peachy the links are here, and the stats speak for themselves....HIV comes from saliva with blood in it, sex between 2 people, and needles shared. The info tells all the stats I listed, how you get it.

More than 25 million people have died of AIDS since 1981.

Africa has 11.6 million AIDS orphans.

At the end of 2007, women accounted for 50% of all adults living with HIV worldwide, and for 59% in sub-Saharan Africa.

Young people (under 25 years old) account for half of all new HIV infections worldwide.

In developing and transitional countries, 9.7 million people are in immediate need of life-saving AIDS drugs; of these, only 2.99 million (31%) are receiving the drugs.
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm

HIV being spread mainly through homosexual relations in Spain/ http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=14688

HIV/AIDS Prevention in Public Places of Homosexual Encounter. http://gateway.nlm.nih.gov/MeetingAbstracts/ma?f=102277660.html

PUBLIC HEALTH
Increase of sexually transmitted infections, but not HIV, among young homosexual men in Amsterdam: are STIs still reliable markers for HIV transmission? http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

http://sti.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/81/1/34

BTW
the promiscuity in the gay male community
is not because they are gay.

It is because they are men. You do not find
the same level of what you call promiscuity
amongst lesbians
and the rate of HIV/Aids in lesbians
is lower than the average.
It makes sense
given that men have always been more sexually free than women
that when you get men with men
there will be more promiscuity.

So look to men not gays for the spread of HIV in North America. Now that would open up a whole new can of worms wouldn't it? ;-)

yes it would...so for your logic.. I am taking your walkinstick that you not move around for a tad...lmao

HAHAHAHAHA!
No no not my walkingstick LOLOL.

Too bad though cause I make walkingsticks so I've got lots of spares.

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bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaa....you rule, Deb.....

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Miss_diva wrote:little known fact about marriage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw

LMAO

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Traditional and biblical...... Marriage is a union between a man and a woman.
Unity between a man and a man or a woman and a woman should not take place in a church or be performed the same way imo. It shouldn't be called marriage either because this makes a mockery out of heterosexual, traditional family values and out of the Bible.
It is no wonder that this causes such controversy. As far as i am concerned, Gay couples are entitled to their happiness but can't they make up their own ceremony since they are pushing their agenda on the world with a vengeance?
Why should anything we celebrate be even close to the same? It is not the same and should be categorized as wayyyy different.
I am not a hater but I do however believe in traditional family values. also in biblical values as well.
I know that my opinion makes no difference but I felt that i wanted to share my point of view.
I watch the news in the world daily and i also keep up with the facts.
Gays and Lesbians are taking over a little more everyday. More and more companies that once supported traditional family are taking sides with the gay agenda just to gain their support and of course their funding. These corporate giants have chosen to no longer remain neutral but proceed fully in support of same sex partners.
Excuse me if i seem a little bitter but hey, I am straight and Straight people are getting the shaft because of the whole gay rights movement.
It isn't fair what is going on imo and I will not change my feelings about that.
Things should have remained neutral but no........ Now it's just one sided.
Marriage = Man+Woman
that's how i see it.
If they want unity then they can surely come up with their own type of ceremony and not request to have a traditional marriage license or anything else that relates to a hetero marriage, such as filing taxes jointly (etc)
sorry :(

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Amymama wrote:......................
Excuse me if i seem a little bitter but hey, I am straight and Straight people are getting the shaft because of the whole gay rights movement.
It isn't fair what is going on imo and I will not change my feelings about that............

Hi Amy, can you elaborate a bit on this? How are straight people getting the shaft? What are they losing?

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Miss_diva wrote:little known fact about marriage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw

Lolol!

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sure jacqui.

Basically straight people (Christians) are about to suffer from a law that is soon to pass stating that if we speak out against gay people in a negative manner then we can actually be charged for hate crimes and have to go to court for sentencing.
I can understand that happening if a horrible hating homophobe lashes out at a gay person and slanders them but to just speak your feelings about the gay agenda and be in fear of being charged for it..... That's just ludicrous. Not to mention the fact that it goes against our freedom of speech and religion. What's new tho? We lose more and more of our constitutional rights everyday but that's a whole nother story. :(

Also What about those of us that are trying to teach our children traditional family values and yet there are pictures posted everywhere and on television of men kissing men or women kissing and fondling women?

There's McDonald's that decided recently to support and fund the gay agenda. They have given gay employees health benefits and yet the straight people have none.

These are just a few small examples. The list goes on and on.

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One day you ought to do some research
and see the list that goes on and on
of what gay people have had to put up with most of their lives
and the crimes committed against gays.

And YOU"RE worrying about losing your right
to say how much you disagree with
my right to marry who I want to.

It is sad to me that you cannot see
that the essence of what you are saying
is that everyone is equal and has equal rights
as long as they fit in with YOUR beliefs
about how things should be and what folk should do or not do.

I am gay
I am no more or more less a human being with rights than you are
regardless of what you may think to the contrary.

I personally find it shameful
that with all the love and humanity
that can be found in Chrisitianity
what too often comes out on a thread like this is
instead
an inflexible dogma that has emerged
from tenacious belief in precepts written
for a different time and different culture
than the one in which we live.

It certainly besmirches the good and fair and open Christians who I believe still make up the majority
at least here in Canada where I live
and where I can marry another woman legally BTW.

The good in a belief system
is not in clinging desperately to a set of rules and regulations
that make life simple and easy for you to navigate with...

To me a good belief system
is one in which the motivation
of love
and of becoming closer to the spirit of love
in ourselves and each other
is what guides one's behavior.

But that's just me.

Blessings.

Deb

Edited on June 19, 2009 at 11:47 PM Permalink

I don't expect you to agree with me.
I have done plenty of research....
I never said anything about you not being human.

Edited on June 19, 2009 at 11:43 PM Permalink

Miss_diva wrote:little known fact about marriage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFkeKKszXTw

I LOVED this. Thanks! :)))))))))))))))

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Amymama wrote:.......There's McDonald's that decided recently to support and fund the gay agenda. They have given gay employees health benefits and yet the straight people have none.

Amy, I am sure this is fiction. If they did this, they'd be falling over themselves fighting discrimination lawsuits.

Amymama wrote:.......Also What about those of us that are trying to teach our children traditional family values and yet there are pictures posted everywhere and on television of men kissing men or women kissing and fondling women.

I also teach my kids my preference for the traditional family, however, I also teach them that there are alternate lifestyles that people live. I don't offer an opinion on it, they can form their own when they fully understand it. Of our close friends, one couple is gay, and I wouldn't want my kids thinking less of them as human beings because they are gay.
I am more concerned about my kids being affected by the near pornography, the violence and the cussing on TV and in public, than the random gay couple showing affection. I hold the same standards for them that I hold for straight couples.

Amymama wrote:....a law that is soon to pass stating that if we speak out against gay people in a negative manner then we can actually be charged for hate crimes and have to go to court for sentencing.
....

I tried researching this, but I could find nothing. I didn't know that the definition of a hate crime had changed to include supression of free speech? Doesn't make sense, but I'll keep researching this?

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:) thanks for your input Jacqui..
actually the McDonald's thing is fact. I have signed the petition through the AFA website and I have chosen to boycott McDonald's because of it.
I am sure by now they are dealing with some sort of lawsuit.

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Amy don't you think the advertising of Mcdonalds (ie: happy meals and ronald ) is a far bigger issue than supporting gay rights? I mean eating mcdonalds is supporting crap eating habits and childhood obesity. There is nothing nutritional about McDonalds yet children as early as 1 yr. are subjecting to eating that garbage. I find the damage that place can inflict on your health to be the real ethical issue for kids. (last I checked kids aren't up to date on what company is endorsing what anyway.)

Edited on June 20, 2009 at 12:06 AM Permalink

Here is some info Jacqui

http://www.afa.net/hatecrimes_20090615.html

http://www.afa.net/pepsi_20090618.html

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69996

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AlyKat wrote:Amy don't you think the advertising of Mcdonalds (ie: happy meals and ronald ) is a far bigger issue than supporting gay rights? I mean eating mcdonalds is supporting crap eating habits and childhood obesity. There is nothing nutritional about McDonalds yet children as early as 1 yr. are subjecting to eating that garbage. I find the damage that place can inflict on your health to be the real ethical issue for kids. (last I checked kids aren't up to date on what company is endorsing what anyway.)

Aly, I have always hated McDonald's because of the garbage they serve. However, I would take my kids there for ice cream cones and to play in their play land.
Now i stopped doing that as well.
I am against everything they stand for and everything that they have become.
I have never fed my kids their so called (nutritional food).

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mcdonalds and nutrition shouldn't be in the same sentence Amy lol! Since I have went rounds with you way back before on this topic, I think we've agreed to disagree :) How are you Amy, haven't seen you around in awhile!

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lol... i totally agree Aly.

I have been around just not very active. I am currently 4 months pregnant with my fifth child and i have just been so busy.

It is great to see you again and many others as well. I have missed conversing and just hanging out so i thought that i would take a little time this evening to chat.

My husband is on a clinical at the ER til 12 and then i'm outties. :)

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congrats Amy!! :)

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McDonald's Is Too Gay

BTW
the health benefits are not something extra McDonald's is doing
They are giving 'equal benefits to same-sex couples'
meaning that they are giving employees in same sex relationships
whatever employees in tradtitional heterosexual relationships are getting.

Edited on June 20, 2009 at 12:37 AM Permalink

AlyKat wrote:congrats Amy!! :)

Thank you hun!!!!!

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walkingstick wrote:McDonald's Is Too Gay

BTW
the health benefits are not something extra McDonald's is doing
They are giving 'equal benefits to same-sex couples'
meaning that they are giving employees in same sex relationships
whatever employees in tradtitional heterosexual relationships are getting.

sex change operations?

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Oh, are heterosexual couples asking for sex change operations?

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walkingstick wrote:Oh, are heterosexual couples asking for sex change operations?

That's what i'm asking you... It makes no sense whatsoever to bring that up.

sex change operations are being funded under insurance???? It's not like heterosexual people need that type of coverage although if they needed open heart surgery i am sure that insurance wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole. :(

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