immigration issues for America

(I'm just moving this from the other thread to this one...)

I'm completely against illegal immigration. I say ship them out and let them try to get back in legally. I don't understand any catering to illegals at all. They are law breakers just by being here, they have no rights under our constitution because they are not legal residents of this country. Not sure how there can be ANY confusion here. There are rules for entering the country legally...follow them or get out! Illegally coming to work here and requesting assylum for a good reason are two very different things.

If you come into this country to work illegally, you are taking your chances. If you get caught here illegally please do not complain when you are deported. Next time, use the propper procedures.

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CrestenPixie wrote:(I'm just moving this from the other thread to this one...)

I'm completely against illegal immigration. I say ship them out and let them try to get back in legally. I don't understand any catering to illegals at all. They are law breakers just by being here, they have no rights under our constitution because they are not legal residents of this country. Not sure how there can be ANY confusion here. There are rules for entering the country legally...follow them or get out! Illegally coming to work here and requesting assylum for a good reason are two very different things.

If you come into this country to work illegally, you are taking your chances. If you get caught here illegally please do not complain when you are deported. Next time, use the propper procedures.

Speaking as a LEGAL immigrant, I agree with this. My family had to jump through hoops, prove that we could support ourselves, sign that we wouldn't go on welfare for 10 years and had to wait 2 years to be approved in order to get into the US. Why should others be allowed to simply jump the fence? It brings to mind the saying that "it's easier to ask forgiveness then to ask permission". Illegal is illegal. Period.

Edited to add: People that immigrate to excape political/religous persecution DO have legal means available to them.

Edited on April 22, 2008 at 12:10 PM Quote

Food for thought.....
Agents Ramos and Compean

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I am a resident alien, born and raised in Mexico. My family came here legaly. I understand why they are trying to come here illegaly but at the same time it baffles me. They can pay a coyote( the guy who transports them)thousands upon thousand of dollars to get here illegaly but they can't pay to do it legally? Then they get busted, sent back and raise the money again to do it illegal again. That's the part that gets me the most LOL. Yes, it is a long process to get through immigration to come here legally. It may take years but if they are so miserable in Mexico to begin with, why not put in for this long process from the beginning and before they know it, they are here legally. Tho of course you have those with criminal records who will not be granted access to come here legally, so they come here illegaly. Those are the ones that are giving us a bad rep. Not all mexican illegals are the same! Most are trying to get here for a better life. Tho whos to say that those criminals aren't here for the same reason, trying to change and start from scratch. Some will never change tho and return back to their criminal life when they discover that they bring this misery with them no matter where they live.
If they really want to come here for a better life, than why not do it the right way, so they are not sent back again and again? That is the part that gets me even more. They come here illegaly, sent back and they keep on trying. All that time that they have spent trying to get here illegaly, could have been spent trying to get here legaly lol. Sometimes, I just want to smack every single one of them but at the same time I try to put myself in their shoes and how ignorant they can be.

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No one with any sense of humanity and compassion begrudges another human being the desire or chance to have a better place to live and work.

The problem Americans have with the millions of people that have come here illegally is they do not respect our laws or our sovereignty. Indeed, they break our laws and disrespect us simply by entering the country illegally. So from the very start, they are law breakers.

Then these law breakers turn right around and protest the country and call us racists and bigots. They demand constitutional protections and governmental assitance. Access to health care and education. They take jobs away from Americans who have families and bills to pay and standards of living to maintain. They drive down wages in existing trades that once paid well.

Americans have plenty of reasons to oppose this flood of illegal aliens from the south. It's not about race. This flood of illegals who come here year after year and demand this and that and steal jobs and protest the country is akin to someone inflicting a wound on your person, then pouring salt into the wound.

What it is is an invasion. No shots have been fired (well, some shots have been fired I have heard). No this is an economic invasion. And our own government is complicit in the invasion. Turning a deaf ear to the outcries of a majority of Americans. Ignoring our anger and resentment and demands that our laws be enforced and our sovereignty respected.

Our government is derelict in its responsibilities.
Where is the protection of our sovereignty? Of the individual Americans who actually are citizens? They have traded in their responsibilities and duties for profit margins to companies benefiting from the slave wages illegals will work for. They have swapped their governmental oaths for a potential new, large voting block.

Mexico is complicit as well. Even encouraging its own citizens to flood across our borders. And why not? Billions of dollars are sent back to Mexico year after year by these illegal invaders.

I am tired of our nation being bled dry. America gives and gives. What do we get in return? Read through alot of these threads. My impression is that most people that live overseas have very little good to say about America.

Indeed, if it were up to me, the southern border would be walled up and mined. Snipers would be stationed at checkpoints all along the wall. Signs would be posted everywhere warning of potential death for crossing the US border illegally.

Anyone hiring an illegal alien knowingly would be subject to a substantial fine and 6 months jail time for each instance of illegal hire.

If the employer was unaware that an illegal had been hired because of false documentation, then once the employer is made aware of the deception, ICE must be brought into the picture. Warnings would then be issued to the employer.

Local law enforcement agencies should HAVE to detain and report to ICE any illegal alien that it has come in contact with.

Any city trying to subvert Federal immigration policies by declaring themselves to be "sanctuary cities" would lose all federal funding and the governmental leadership of these cities should be brought up on federal charges.

I do not oppose LEGAL immigration. All of us can research our family trees and discover we came from somewhere else in the world.

If you want to immigrate to this country, do it legally.

If you want to subvert our laws, disrespect this nation and steal from America, then prepare to suffer the consequences.

And for those illegals who have come to this nation and have started preaching their message of reclaiming land that is rightfully theirs. You are sadly mistaken if you think Americans are going to tolerate you.

Go back to Mexico and protest your own government and change things there.

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*hangs on tightly to titanium lightning rod* ;-)

It is a rare occasion that I agree with you, Rick, and this happens to be one of them.

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CrestenPixie wrote:(I'm just moving this from the other thread to this one...)

I'm completely against illegal immigration. I say ship them out and let them try to get back in legally. I don't understand any catering to illegals at all. They are law breakers just by being here, they have no rights under our constitution because they are not legal residents of this country. Not sure how there can be ANY confusion here. There are rules for entering the country legally...follow them or get out! Illegally coming to work here and requesting assylum for a good reason are two very different things.

If you come into this country to work illegally, you are taking your chances. If you get caught here illegally please do not complain when you are deported. Next time, use the propper procedures.

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rickorama wrote:No one with any sense of humanity and compassion begrudges another human being the desire or chance to have a better place to live and work.

The problem Americans have with the millions of people that have come here illegally is they do not respect our laws or our sovereignty. Indeed, they break our laws and disrespect us simply by entering the country illegally. So from the very start, they are law breakers.

Then these law breakers turn right around and protest the country and call us racists and bigots. They demand constitutional protections and governmental assitance. Access to health care and education. They take jobs away from Americans who have families and bills to pay and standards of living to maintain. They drive down wages in existing trades that once paid well.

Americans have plenty of reasons to oppose this flood of illegal aliens from the south. It's not about race. This flood of illegals who come here year after year and demand this and that and steal jobs and protest the country is akin to someone inflicting a wound on your person, then pouring salt into the wound.

What it is is an invasion. No shots have been fired (well, some shots have been fired I have heard). No this is an economic invasion. And our own government is complicit in the invasion. Turning a deaf ear to the outcries of a majority of Americans. Ignoring our anger and resentment and demands that our laws be enforced and our sovereignty respected.

Our government is derelict in its responsibilities.
Where is the protection of our sovereignty? Of the individual Americans who actually are citizens? They have traded in their responsibilities and duties for profit margins to companies benefiting from the slave wages illegals will work for. They have swapped their governmental oaths for a potential new, large voting block.

Mexico is complicit as well. Even encouraging its own citizens to flood across our borders. And why not? Billions of dollars are sent back to Mexico year after year by these illegal invaders.

I am tired of our nation being bled dry. America gives and gives. What do we get in return? Read through alot of these threads. My impression is that most people that live overseas have very little good to say about America.

Indeed, if it were up to me, the southern border would be walled up and mined. Snipers would be stationed at checkpoints all along the wall. Signs would be posted everywhere warning of potential death for crossing the US border illegally.

Anyone hiring an illegal alien knowingly would be subject to a substantial fine and 6 months jail time for each instance of illegal hire.

If the employer was unaware that an illegal had been hired because of false documentation, then once the employer is made aware of the deception, ICE must be brought into the picture. Warnings would then be issued to the employer.

Local law enforcement agencies should HAVE to detain and report to ICE any illegal alien that it has come in contact with.

Any city trying to subvert Federal immigration policies by declaring themselves to be "sanctuary cities" would lose all federal funding and the governmental leadership of these cities should be brought up on federal charges.

I do not oppose LEGAL immigration. All of us can research our family trees and discover we came from somewhere else in the world.

If you want to immigrate to this country, do it legally.

If you want to subvert our laws, disrespect this nation and steal from America, then prepare to suffer the consequences.

And for those illegals who have come to this nation and have started preaching their message of reclaiming land that is rightfully theirs. You are sadly mistaken if you think Americans are going to tolerate you.

Go back to Mexico and protest your own government and change things there.

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Jacqui wrote:*hangs on tightly to titanium lightning rod* ;-)

It is a rare occasion that I agree with you, Rick, and this happens to be one of them.

lol, it will be ok Jacqui.

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CrestenPixie wrote:(I'm just moving this from the other thread to this one...)

I'm completely against illegal immigration. I say ship them out and let them try to get back in legally. I don't understand any catering to illegals at all. They are law breakers just by being here, they have no rights under our constitution because they are not legal residents of this country. Not sure how there can be ANY confusion here. There are rules for entering the country legally...follow them or get out! Illegally coming to work here and requesting assylum for a good reason are two very different things.

If you come into this country to work illegally, you are taking your chances. If you get caught here illegally please do not complain when you are deported. Next time, use the propper procedures.

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Hillbilly wrote:

CrestenPixie wrote:(I'm just moving this from the other thread to this one...)

I'm completely against illegal immigration. I say ship them out and let them try to get back in legally. I don't understand any catering to illegals at all. They are law breakers just by being here, they have no rights under our constitution because they are not legal residents of this country. Not sure how there can be ANY confusion here. There are rules for entering the country legally...follow them or get out! Illegally coming to work here and requesting assylum for a good reason are two very different things.

If you come into this country to work illegally, you are taking your chances. If you get caught here illegally please do not complain when you are deported. Next time, use the propper procedures.

Just what I been sayin all along. Only I'm a hater if I say it.

It's the hat hillbilly.

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It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

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Strange thing is if a brit was illegally in the usa, then they would be deported...why have mexicans got preferential treatment?

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We're gonna need a bigger fence.

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dizzybummer wrote:Strange thing is if a brit was illegally in the usa, then they would be deported...why have mexicans got preferential treatment?

Its about money...cheap labor...easy access to the cheap labor.

It makes me sick.

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Actually, how can we build a fence when the NAFTA Superhighway runs smack dab through the center of our country from Mexico clean into Canada!

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NAFTA Superhighway.......is that like, ummm..I-95?

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Arizonagal wrote:Actually, how can we build a fence when the NAFTA Superhighway runs smack dab through the center of our country from Mexico clean into Canada!

that highway should not be there. Our own government is subverting our own laws and disregarding the will of the people.

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Hey there eileen

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It's in progress

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eileen wrote:

rickorama wrote:

Hillbilly wrote:

CrestenPixie wrote:(I'm just moving this from the other thread to this one...)

I'm completely against illegal immigration. I say ship them out and let them try to get back in legally. I don't understand any catering to illegals at all. They are law breakers just by being here, they have no rights under our constitution because they are not legal residents of this country. Not sure how there can be ANY confusion here. There are rules for entering the country legally...follow them or get out! Illegally coming to work here and requesting assylum for a good reason are two very different things.

If you come into this country to work illegally, you are taking your chances. If you get caught here illegally please do not complain when you are deported. Next time, use the propper procedures.

Just what I been sayin all along. Only I'm a hater if I say it.

It's the hat hillbilly.

what..you think your all that because of YOUR hat?

*winks at rick*

pulls index finger and thumb accross the brim of his hat...well, I think it speaks for itself.

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Do you think that children, born here of illegal immigrant parents should be automatically granted US citizenship?

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rickorama wrote:

Arizonagal wrote:Actually, how can we build a fence when the NAFTA Superhighway runs smack dab through the center of our country from Mexico clean into Canada!

that highway should not be there. Our own government is subverting our own laws and disregarding the will of the people.

So that's the very reason we have the problem with illegal immigration...now...but once we're merged with Mexico and Canada, under the North American Union, that will no longer be an issue!

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Jacqui wrote:Do you think that children, born here of illegal immigrant parents should be automatically granted US citizenship?

Illegal parents = illegal children

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Jacqui wrote:Do you think that children, born here of illegal immigrant parents should be automatically granted US citizenship?

As the law stands now Jacqui, they are granted citizenship. That law needs to be changed immediatly. All it does is provide incentive for people to illegally enter the country and reproduce.

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eileen wrote:

Jacqui wrote:Food for thought.....
Agents Ramos and Compean

wow..thats an unbelievable story. I would say although the agents made the mistake of not reporting the situation (I wouldnt even call it a "crime"; they were doing their JOB) this is a prime example of how the border system is broken. I am sad, confused and angry about the injustiification of the agents while the drug smuggler is granted immunity. God help us.

Edited on April 22, 2008 at 5:02 PM Quote

Jacqui wrote:NAFTA Superhighway.......is that like, ummm..I-95?

Is that ummm...what they call it? ;)

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rickorama wrote:........As the law stands now Jacqui, they are granted citizenship. That law needs to be changed immediatly. All it does is provide incentive for people to illegally enter the country and reproduce.

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Jacqui wrote:

rickorama wrote:........As the law stands now Jacqui, they are granted citizenship. That law needs to be changed immediatly. All it does is provide incentive for people to illegally enter the country and reproduce.

Clearly, the government needs to fix the loopholes like these, and others to make this country unattractive to illegal immigration. As long as these options are available, the steady stream of border crossing will continue.

The problem is, it appears that a good majority of our representatives in government WANT these illegals to come into our country. They have no interest in addressing these issues. It is not a problem to them, it is an economic and political opportunity.

What do we do when our own government thwarts the will of the people that gave them the power to represent them?

Therein lies the real problem. We are far too busy and too entrenched in our day to day lives and our need to survive and maintain to just drop things and take these issues head on as a block of disgruntled Americans. The politicians know this. So they sneak about, trying to pass legislation in the way hours of the night when there is little coverage. Cloaking pro-illegal legislation under names like "immigration reform" or "temporary worker" legislation.

There is too much money to be made and too many potential voters to be gained for these politicians to enforce the laws on the books.

It is up to us. But...will we take matters into our own hands?

Edited on April 22, 2008 at 5:21 PM Quote

Well, then I guess my resident alien status should be revoked. My grandparents came across on a work visa, had my father and my uncles in the US, while working the fields. So, my dad is an american citizen. Once they had enough money saved up and no they did not send it home, they were home lol. They went back to Mexico, my dad and uncles were still young. Then they ( the kids) came to the US to work the fields as kids and didn't finish school. I think my dad only made it to 10th grade in mexico. Three years later married my mom and made her a resident alien and me as well, since I was born in Mexico. My parents rented a one room shack, while they worked and I lived with my grandparents in Mexico. I didn't start school here till I was in the 2nd grade. My sister and brother were both born in the US. My mom is now a US citizen, I am the only one to not have my citizenship yet. I haven't had the money to do it BUT according to the Military I am LOL. My ex-husband, is special forces Green Beret. For him to be granted a security clearance, I had to be made a US Citizen. They put it on paper that I am but once we divorced, I lost that citizenship LOL. Dadbarnit, now I gotta come up with the money for it, luckily I don't have to take the test since I went to school here since I was in the 2nd grade. :)

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wow...i didn't think i would ever agree with rick on an issue.
I have no problem with people legally immigrating and gaining citizenship. But I do have a BIG problem with illegal immigration. I understand they want a better life-but please do it legally and have respect for the culture of the country in which you choose to call home.

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ladylikepsych wrote:wow...i didn't think i would ever agree with rick on an issue.
I have no problem with people legally immigrating and gaining citizenship. But I do have a BIG problem with illegal immigration. I understand they want a better life-but please do it legally and have respect for the culture of the country in which you choose to call home.

Well hush my mouth, both ladylikepsych and jacqui agreeing with me on something.

Looks up at the sky...no..the moon is not full.

Well they say the sun shines on a dog's butt some days...lol

Edited on April 22, 2008 at 8:14 PM Quote

So if illegal immigrants reproduce in the U.S. then their children are legal citizens...fine, but does that mean they let the illegal parents stay till their kids are grown? Do they deport the parents and put the kids in foster care? Do they deport the whole family?

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Jacqui wrote:

eileen wrote:

Jacqui wrote:Food for thought.....
Agents Ramos and Compean

wow..thats an unbelievable story. I would say although the agents made the mistake of not reporting the situation (I wouldnt even call it a "crime"; they were doing their JOB) this is a prime example of how the border system is broken. I am sad, confused and angry about the injustiification of the agents while the drug smuggler is granted immunity. God help us.

Presidential pardon for Ramos and Compean?

09:25 AM CDT on Sunday, March 30, 2008
By ALFREDO CORCHADO / The Dallas Morning News
acorchado@dallasnews.com

CAMARGO, Mexico – The ranch near this border community is isolated, desolate and laced by arroyos – an ideal place, experts say, for training drug cartel assassins.

Mexican drug cartels have conducted military-style training camps in at least six such locations in northern Tamaulipas and Nuevo León states, some within a few miles of the Texas border, according to U.S. and Mexican authorities and the printed testimony of five protected witnesses who were trained in the camps.

The camps near the Texas border and at other locations in Mexico are used to train cartel recruits – ranging from Mexican army deserters to American teenagers – who then carry out killings and other cartel assignments on both sides of the border, authorities say.

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"Traffickers go to great lengths to prepare themselves for battle," said a senior U.S. anti-narcotics official, speaking on condition of anonymity. "Part of that preparation is live firing ranges and combat training courses. ... And that's not something that we have seen before."

Many of the camps are temporary, used for a time and then abandoned or used intermittently. Others are hidden on private land behind locked gates and have more permanent facilities, the officials said.

The land is seldom held in the name of known cartel members but is usually purchased through someone fronting for a cartel, authorities said. Sometimes "mobile" training camps are conducted on private land without the owner's consent.

The camps include locations in Mexico's interior, but U.S. law enforcement officials said they are acutely concerned about those along the 1,000-mile-long Texas-Mexico border – another example of the escalating drug war among feuding cartels.

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In Texas, Webb County Sheriff Rick Flores said he and other law enforcement officials are "doing everything we can to secure our borders with limited resources."

"We know through intelligence sources that narco-traffickers invest money in Mexican nationals and U.S. citizens in training camps to instruct them in the black art of assassination and terror," he said. "It's even more shocking to hear that they even have mobile training sites because they take loads of money to set up."

In the state of Tamaulipas, for example, the Zetas – paramilitary enforcers of the Gulf cartel – train with other mercenaries, including the Kaibiles from Guatemala, the officials said.

The testimony of the five protected witnesses is in documents from the Mexico attorney general's office obtained by The Dallas Morning News . Fernando Castillo, the spokesman for the attorney general's office, confirmed the authenticity of the documents and said the report of six training camp locations in two states abutting Texas was "about right."

"We're not talking about Marine-style or al-Qaeda-type training camps," Mr. Castillo said Friday. "These are more informal places used for target shooting and for physical exercising."

According to the printed testimony, the training has taken place at locations southwest of Matamoros, across the border from Brownsville; near the town of Abasolo, between Matamoros and Ciudad Victoria; just north of the Nuevo Laredo airport; and at a place called "Rancho Las Amarillas" near a rural community, China, that is close to the Nuevo León-Tamaulipas border.

Two other ranches used as training camps, both east of Matamoros, have clandestine landing strips for cocaine shipments originating in Colombia and destined for the United States via Texas, according to the officials and testimony.

Mr. Castillo described Rancho Las Amarillas as a more sophisticated operation than the others and said Mexican authorities seized the ranch in 2002. The ranch manager, Eduardo Salvador López, was sentenced Feb. 23 to 20 years in prison for drug crimes.

Mr. Castillo added: "When we know there is a training camp, we seized them and shut them down. But because they're often mobile and often temporary, we can't do much about them."

Two Mexican soldiers stationed in Reynosa, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the camps are sometimes heavily fortified.

"In some cases, they're better armed than we are," one soldier said of the cartel members. "They can bring down a plane."

A former senior Mexican intelligence official said that the use of training camps has become "standard practice" for the cartels. "Yes, there are training camps where hitmen from both sides of the border train with weapons from the United States," he said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

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'Hundreds' of soldiers

There is no firm estimate of the number of people who have received training in the camps, but a U.S. intelligence official said the number was in the "hundreds" across Mexico.

It's all part of a strategy by drug cartels to intimidate their enemies and assert control over besieged communities along the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border, the officials said. The result has been unprecedented violence – at least 5,000 people killed nationwide in two years – and ongoing brutal confrontations with local, state and federal forces.

"The Zetas paramilitarized the situation with training camps and military background," said a senior U.S. law enforcement official and weapons specialist, speaking on condition of anonymity. "They turned battles into a prolonged war."

In small towns along the Texas-Tamaulipas border, the Zetas operate with seeming impunity, driving late-model SUVs and carrying gold-plated rifles. Roadside altars are appearing that pay tribute to "Santa Muerte," the Saint of Death, adorned with candles and Grim Reaper figurines. Residents regard them as a sign of cartel activity.

According to the witness testimony and interviews with U.S. and Mexican officials, training in the camps may range from a few weeks to months, and trainees have included American teenagers.

One of them is Rosalio Reta, 18, who was sentenced last year to 40 years in prison for a murder in Laredo. Mr. Reta's career as a cartel hitman began at age 13, he told investigators. Authorities say he may have been involved in as many as 30 execution-style murders in the U.S. and Mexico.

Last year, Mr. Reta gave Laredo police Detective Roberto García an account of how he and other high school-age boys were trained as teenage hitmen for the Zetas. Mr. Reta told Laredo authorities he spent months training under Mateo Díaz López, "Comandante Teo," an alleged top Zeta member arrested last year in the state of Tabasco on drug and weapons charges.

Mr. Reta's confession led to the discovery of three clandestine cells in Laredo, allegedly carrying out assignments for reputed cartel leader Miguel Treviño.

"I know we're fighting terrorism throughout the world ... but here along the border the narco-terrorists operate on both sides of the border, and so far it's gone largely unnoticed by Washington," said Webb County Assistant District Attorney Jesús Guillén, who prosecuted Mr. Reta.

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Life at the ranch

According to the printed testimony, Rancho Las Amarillas was under the control of reputed Gulf cartel leader Osiel Cárdenas Guillén.

Mr. Cárdenas has been extradited to the U.S. and is awaiting trial in Houston on 17 counts of importing and distribution of drugs, as well as three charges of threatening a U.S. federal agent and one of money laundering. He faces a maximum sentence of life in prison if convicted.

Mr. Cárdenas used the ranch to raise cattle as well as to train his personal militia, many of them former army soldiers lured by promises of higher pay, according to the testimony. Pay started at about $300 a week but would double within six months – far higher than salaries for soldiers or police. Pay for hitmen and bodyguards began at $1,000 per week, according to testimony.

In September 2001, Mr. Cárdenas, a former federal police officer, began ordering new recruits lured from Mexican special forces units to the ranch for advanced training, according to the testimony.

"That course lasted two months," according to the testimony of one protected witness, who said he worked for Zeta leader Arturo Guzmán Decena. "From that point on, the Zetas, numbering more than 50, began to engage in larger operations."

Mr. Guzmán was later killed in a battle with the Mexican army in Matamoros. Today, the number of "hardcore" Zeta members is more than 300, according to an internal Mexican military intelligence report.

The training is extensive and includes the use of such weapons as AK-47 assault rifles, AR-15s, grenade launchers and .50-caliber machine guns, according to the testimony and U.S. officials.

And the training can be deadly. In September 2002, Zeta member Omar Bautista Hernández drowned during an exercise that required him to swim with his backpack and high-powered weapon, according to the testimony.

The camps serve other purposes. In his confession, Mr. Reta told Detective García that the ranches are used as execution sites, where cartel members dispose of their enemies.

In one incident, according to testimony, the bodies of four Nuevo Laredo police officers were set on fire inside barrels filled with diesel fuel. The remains were buried there the next day.

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