Is 12/21/2012 the End Time?

Actually, I've read the Nero theory, and this is what a lot of people who believe in Universal Reconciliation believe. Makes a lot of sense. But not quite as sensational. :)

pamplemus wrote:Lots of people believe that the entire revelation speaks to the time of Nero. According to this scripture it would have to be a time in which slavery was relatively common as it talks of slaves being buyers and sellers and so well ingrained in the fabric of society. This could not reasonably refer to the few pockets of slavery extant in current civilization, which is largely relegated to the sex trade or other nefarious undertakings. Whatever this "mark of the beast" was it is pretty certain that it, along with the culture in which it occurred passed away with the institution of wholesale commercial slavery.

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pamplemus wrote:Lots of people believe that the entire revelation speaks to the time of Nero. According to this scripture it would have to be a time in which slavery was relatively common as it talks of slaves being buyers and sellers and so well ingrained in the fabric of society. This could not reasonably refer to the few pockets of slavery extant in current civilization, which is largely relegated to the sex trade or other nefarious undertakings. Whatever this "mark of the beast" was it is pretty certain that it, along with the culture in which it occurred passed away with the institution of wholesale commercial slavery.

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probable and sensible are such messy concepts when applied to religious thought though.

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The fact that Revelations can't be interpreted literally has it open to so much interpretation that it can be easily misinterpreted and predictions made on many future events, based on the scriptures and verses....and then be used with so many of the common thinking biases people use, like confirmation bias (refers to a type of selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and to look for what confirms one's beliefs, and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts one's beliefs).

For example:

http://www.revelations.org.za/DigitalMoney.htm

It's entirely possible the age of digital money has absolutely nothing to do with Revelations as well, and that nobody is wanting to force a mark into anyone.

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Mishamay wrote:The fact that Revelations can't be interpreted literally has it open to so much interpretation that it can be easily misinterpreted and predictions made on many future events, based on the scriptures and verses....and then be used with so many of the common thinking biases people use, like confirmation bias (refers to a type of selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and to look for what confirms one's beliefs, and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts one's beliefs).

For example:

http://www.revelations.org.za/DigitalMoney.htm

It's entirely possible the age of digital money has absolutely nothing to do with Revelations as well, and that nobody is wanting to force a mark into anyone.

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pamplemus wrote:probable and sensible are such messy concepts when applied to religious thought though.

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criss_cross wrote:

Mishamay wrote:The fact that Revelations can't be interpreted literally has it open to so much interpretation that it can be easily misinterpreted and predictions made on many future events, based on the scriptures and verses....and then be used with so many of the common thinking biases people use, like confirmation bias (refers to a type of selective thinking whereby one tends to notice and to look for what confirms one's beliefs, and to ignore, not look for, or undervalue the relevance of what contradicts one's beliefs).

For example:

http://www.revelations.org.za/DigitalMoney.htm

It's entirely possible the age of digital money has absolutely nothing to do with Revelations as well, and that nobody is wanting to force a mark into anyone.

Love that you used the term confirmation bias. I know the term and always forget to use it when it is relevent. lol

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I am very familiar with it. Good ste.

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as we inch closer to the last days on the mayan calendar, i thought that perhaps we could refresh our memories of when the christian apocalypse was fulfilled in the time of nero. this thread delved into it lightly, but i do not think it exhausted the subject. with the nouveau postdiction theology gleefully preparing christian minds for a whole new banquet of atrocities in the form of renewed variations on the Revelations theme, what do sensible thinkers believe about the previous church fathers declaring nero as the antichrist? if they were right then why the hooplah about another antichrist? if they were wrong, then how can they be trusted on other doctrinal issues they pontificated upon such as epistemology, the virgin birth, the scriptural canon, and the deity of christ?

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i think that this would be a great thread for survivalist ideas and tips as well. what if all the churchniks wildest hopes and dreams are right and pandemonium, anarchy, looting, pillage, rape and plunder are just over the raptural horizon? what preparations have you made, or are you making, to prepare for the collapse of civilization as the obama economy falters and gangs of disillusioned democrats take to roaming the streets looking for uncommitted TARP funds?

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well, the modern church doesn't seem very interested in what the early church believed (I define early as pre 500) to be honest. They seem more inclined to trust more recent "revelation" from people such as Edwards, Calvin, and Luther. Most are only willing to go as far back as Augustine. Some of them do adore Tertullian...who goes back further. He did embrace certain doctrines they just love, love, love....but he was often at odds with the other church father regarding those doctrines--and mercy in general.

But I have to be honest: concerning end times I don't think the early church knew any more than Lahaye. Much of their writings about revelations predicted that Nero would be raised from the dead to fulfill the prophesy which didn't seem to be revealed. When you look at what the fulfillment of a lot of old testament prophesies turned out to be it sure seems like it all may be a lot less dramatic than we predict...and yes, I do believe it may already be long over. Dramatic language is dramatic. :) *shrug*

pamplemus wrote:as we inch closer to the last days on the mayan calendar, i thought that perhaps we could refresh our memories of when the christian apocalypse was fulfilled in the time of nero. this thread delved into it lightly, but i do not think it exhausted the subject. with the nouveau postdiction theology gleefully preparing christian minds for a whole new banquet of atrocities in the form of renewed variations on the Revelations theme, what do sensible thinkers believe about the previous church fathers declaring nero as the antichrist? if they were right then why the hooplah about another antichrist? if they were wrong, then how can they be trusted on other doctrinal issues they pontificated upon such as epistemology, the virgin birth, the scriptural canon, and the deity of christ?

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pamplemus wrote:as we inch closer to the last days on the mayan calendar, i thought that perhaps we could refresh our memories of when the christian apocalypse was fulfilled in the time of nero. this thread delved into it lightly, but i do not think it exhausted the subject. with the nouveau postdiction theology gleefully preparing christian minds for a whole new banquet of atrocities in the form of renewed variations on the Revelations theme, what do sensible thinkers believe about the previous church fathers declaring nero as the antichrist? if they were right then why the hooplah about another antichrist? if they were wrong, then how can they be trusted on other doctrinal issues they pontificated upon such as epistemology, the virgin birth, the scriptural canon, and the deity of christ?

....the present-day Mayan intelligentsia is sick of having to respond to queries regarding the doomsday prophesy or prediction, 20/12/12...20/21/12 what ever it it is !....One expert pundit of Mayan descent stated, ..."only in America." Leave it to the Americans to come up with something like this and I'll bet you a sweet peso someone will profit from it."....It's not going to happen, he further stated as he compared it to 2yk. He and other experts assured their patience until that time

...so Pamp think this is somewhat related as you stated above...the "hooplah' comes and goes and in the process chips away at the credibility of bible doctrine, prophesy, miracles, and the kitchen sink..... then another will manifest itself as the need of the church arises......got to keep the masses "sceered"....or we lose control.....

Edited on October 24, 2009 at 5:23 PM Permalink

roj...Ive said it before...it goes like this...self fulfilled prophecy...all the wingnuts have had 2k years to plan for this...as opposed to like 6 months for y2k.....there will be all sorts of nutball splinter groups and adventists offing themselves...and then people will declare oh wow it was true, there was great suffering...puhlease ...give me a break....hooplah to the utmost extreme that WILL prolly result in a ton of suffering, thus making it appear true...yet people will be too friggin stupid to see it for what it is...

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that is my prochecy heheh

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....although, i am starting to worship the cheesemakers just in case

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blessed are the cheesemakers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiDmMBIyfsU

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CoconutDave wrote:With so much happening right now that seems to echo biblical prophecies having already been fulfilled, being fulfilled today and yet to be fulfilled, is the end of time- denoted independently to the DAY on the calenders of three ancient civilizations, the Egytian, Myan and Incan- when their calender stops, on December 21, 2012?

According to the bible, the end will be very specific and intense, plus very short. Regardless of the signs of the times, I doubt this is the time of the end. These are the latter days, which are within prophetic fulfillment. The suspicious stuff we see is Satan working behind the scence, preparing for his final hour.

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Had to post twice, as flag default 'NO' ;(

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how can the end be short? i mean, it's like, the end right? sounds pretty terminal.

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kkidd wrote:roj...Ive said it before...it goes like this...self fulfilled prophecy...all the wingnuts have had 2k years to plan for this...as opposed to like 6 months for y2k.....there will be all sorts of nutball splinter groups and adventists offing themselves...and then people will declare oh wow it was true, there was great suffering...puhlease ...give me a break....hooplah to the utmost extreme that WILL prolly result in a ton of suffering, thus making it appear true...yet people will be too friggin stupid to see it for what it is...

This seems like a fairly plausible scenario!....smiles....

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nope...well,maybe, but the bible says that the end will come like a thief in the night, it nobody will know the day or the hour...so maybe it will, but not because the mayans said so...just my beliefs...but I bet it's gonna be a cool movie!

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kkidd wrote:roj...Ive said it before...it goes like this...self fulfilled prophecy...all the wingnuts have had 2k years to plan for this...as opposed to like 6 months for y2k.....there will be all sorts of nutball splinter groups and adventists offing themselves...and then people will declare oh wow it was true, there was great suffering...puhlease ...give me a break....hooplah to the utmost extreme that WILL prolly result in a ton of suffering, thus making it appear true...yet people will be too friggin stupid to see it for what it is...

Well,they can only hope they are right.Seems that man has been trying to end times since the beginning of recorded times.It's kinda odd that most spend so much time looking to the past,in hopes of looking forward to the end.We are strange creatures,are we not? : )

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darryl wrote:

kkidd wrote:roj...Ive said it before...it goes like this...self fulfilled prophecy...all the wingnuts have had 2k years to plan for this...as opposed to like 6 months for y2k.....there will be all sorts of nutball splinter groups and adventists offing themselves...and then people will declare oh wow it was true, there was great suffering...puhlease ...give me a break....hooplah to the utmost extreme that WILL prolly result in a ton of suffering, thus making it appear true...yet people will be too friggin stupid to see it for what it is...

Well,they can only hope they are right.Seems that man has been trying to end times since the beginning of recorded times.It's kinda odd that most spend so much time looking to the past,in hopes of looking forward to the end.We are strange creatures,are we not? : )

We would be even stranger creatures if we wanted the world of mankind to continue down this road = 2 world wars,slaughtering millions of men women and children ( with no end of that in sight as far as I can see ) we have the capacity,not only to blow the earth apart,but the shock wave would probably take out the Moon,Jupiter and Mars too...oh yes,left in mans hands there is no future for our children or our childrens children.........this is what you guys want ? .....I say = no, thankyou very much.

Edited on November 6, 2009 at 6:26 AM Permalink

CoconutDave wrote:With so much happening right now that seems to echo biblical prophecies having already been fulfilled, being fulfilled today and yet to be fulfilled, is the end of time- denoted independently to the DAY on the calenders of three ancient civilizations, the Egytian, Myan and Incan- when their calender stops, on December 21, 2012?

I'm not a gambling man, but you can be sure some people would take out a bet on just about anything. I'm pretty sure that the bookies will take bets on us all still being around after 2012; the only problem would be that the odds would be stacked so high it wouldn't be worth the bet.

Do I think we are still going to be around? In one word ... Yes. :-)

~F~

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Maybe the Egytian, Myan and Incan calendar makers ran out of room.We only make most of our calendars to reflect only one or two years now.Or maybe they were all predicting that their kingdoms would thrive much longer then they actually did.Ya never know.

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