Do You Have A Soul

I don't know what "A Soul" is. I have a physical body and a the result of having an organ called a brain I am stuck with a mind that plagues me with emotional stuff.. Besides body, and mind (an aspect of my physical being), I don't know what else exists. What is soul ? (Besides somebody that can really sing R&B very well) ?

Edited on August 27, 2008 at 12:07 AM Quote

The fact that I am alive (based upon your definition of the Soul) is evidence I have a Soul. This does not explain who God is, it has NO baring on "Hell" or "Heaven", It is what exists currently, and an assumption we make regarding our observations of who we are.. We do not know the "why's".. We were created by our parents, who were created by their parents, etc who likely were created by a couple of horny apes.. Besides that, I have no answers.. What does God have to do with any of this ?

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I think we evolved from other primates. I do believe we are animals. I believe our behaviour is VERY similar, but even if this were the case, there might still be a God. I will never believe we are "a chosen species", I believe we wish to believe we are however. I think we are just another species of animal sharing this earth.. I do not believe we should be privvy to anything ! Although I would not wish to become shark food, or a snack for an alligator.

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MrsM wrote:A corpse is a body without life. A living body has a soul (life).

By definition, doesn't that also mean that apes and any other creature or living organism would have soul too? They all have bodies too. They just aren't human bodies.

Edited on August 28, 2008 at 10:01 PM Quote

Creatures are human too Cat !!!!

<ETE SEG>

My thoughts are she is referring to human bodies in her example however I disagree with that premise. Despite what the human ego wishes to believe, I have been around enough species to personally believe they are no lesser evolved regarding what might be referred to as "spirit", and as we all know what many species lack in one area, innately they often are highly developed in areas that excede human capabilities (regarding what we would consider a 6th sense)

Edited on August 28, 2008 at 10:05 PM Quote

I do not ponder heaven and hell either. In fact, I do not believe in either one. Does that mean I'm not human or that I do not have a soul? Am I really alive? Now there is something to ponder.

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Steven_Kaplan wrote:Creatures are human too Cat !!!!

<ETE SEG>

LOL. I'm a Cat with a Hat and I do occasionally pass for human. Is this real? Am I real? Did I take the blue pill or the red one. I can't seem to remember. ;)

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Well, It's like the age old debate goes

"Is there life after birth".

Quite honestly, I don't believe anyone has ever survived birth who can attest to this :/ (where are the inebriated emoticoms when I want them)

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I added to the above post (as I tend to do Cat). My thoughts are that certain species are highly developed in areas (that assuming humans had such ability, they'd be considered paranormal, psychic, having extrasensory perception, etc)... I most certainly would have NO way of knowing what animals do, or do not have... I believe they have MUCH more than most humans give them credit for having however, and I certainly believe ANY dog or cat owner will feel there is some type of "soul" bonding between them and their pet.. People do love to put our species on a throne however.

I find it ridiculous personally when people claim,

"Well we tested the parrots IQ, and it wasn't quite as high as a human IQ's, In fact Alex (RIP Eileen Peppertons African Grey) has the intellect of a 4 year old child"..

I feel like responding...

"Give Bobby Fisher an IQ test in Portugese, use analgies he has never been brought up to understand in his culture, ask question about history he has never studied, and ask him to match shades of color (assuming he's color blind)..." then publish in some journal his IQ is only 46.

The burdon is put on the animal species in the first place to communicate in a means WE can understand and assimilate.. Why not curve the IQ tests and give the animal 100 points for that ability alone, I suppose if a birds penmanship is poor that means it also has a retarded part of the brain thats responsible for eye-beak coordination..

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CatBallou wrote:

LOL. I'm a Cat with a Hat and I do occasionally pass for human. Is this real? Am I real? Did I take the blue pill or the red one. I can't seem to remember. ;)

I think you're real Cat
yes I do
as for the pill
It's red, not blue
I like your hat, cat
I must scram
My mind is slow too
Sam I am.

Edited on August 28, 2008 at 10:26 PM Quote

MrsM wrote: Your soul lead you to make assumptions about who we are,

Well, that's assuming a lot.

strongly recommend:

Edited on August 28, 2008 at 10:49 PM Quote

Hotstepper wrote:

MrsM wrote: Your soul lead you to make assumptions about who we are,

Well, that's assuming a lot.

strongly recommend:

Truth is, I use the bathroom mirror, and a tape-recorder, and responses to my posts to figure out who I am. A soul is something I never gave much thought to (to be honest). I don't really know what the term means. Even though I'm quite spiritual (must be, my shrink said so) I still don't know what the definition of "Soul" is and how it differs from Emotion.

Edited on August 29, 2008 at 12:05 AM Quote

Steven_Kaplan wrote:

CatBallou wrote:

LOL. I'm a Cat with a Hat and I do occasionally pass for human. Is this real? Am I real? Did I take the blue pill or the red one. I can't seem to remember. ;)

I think you're real Cat
yes I do
as for the pill
It's red, not blue
I like your hat, cat
I must scram
My mind is slow too
Sam I am.

I like!!! :)

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*sigh* I wish I was talented enough to make up Dr. Seuss poems!

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You can type them in red
You can type them in blue
Dr Seuss in bold font
is enjoyable too

Whether contents inane
profound, haughty, or light
If I did this with Disney
I'd infract Copyright

When alone and real bored, with a few words that rhyme
Since there do exist limits *one can't type pantomime*

The more stuff I type, the more time that I blow.
Makes me feel less compelled to call Hertz-rent-a-Ho

When my fingers type freely you are likely to find
my copious drivel, I've lost my whole mind
While some view this as skill, It's just Seussian comp
That I guise for my own meritorious pomp

Edited on August 30, 2008 at 2:43 AM Quote

Steven_Kaplan wrote:You can type them in red
You can type them in blue
Dr Seuss in bold font
is enjoyable too

Whether contents inane
profound, haughty, or light
If I did this with Disney
I'd infract Copyright

When alone and real bored, with a few words that rhyme
Since there do exist limits *one can't type pantomime*

The more stuff I type, the more time that I blow.
Makes me feel less compelled to call Hertz-rent-a-Ho

When my fingers type freely you are likely to find
my copious drivel, I've lost my whole mind
While some view this as skill, It's just Seussian comp
That I guise for my own meritorious pomp

I didn't know you spoke Hat!!

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What I want to have is soul. Not "a" soul.

Edited on August 30, 2008 at 1:00 PM Quote

CatBallou wrote:

MrsM wrote:A corpse is a body without life. A living body has a soul (life).

By definition, doesn't that also mean that apes and any other creature or living organism would have soul too? They all have bodies too. They just aren't human bodies.

And plants?

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MrsM wrote:The fact that you have a soul is what makes you ask, "What is heaven, what is hell, and What does God have to do with any of this." Your soul lead you to make assumptions about who we are, try to find out the why's and to question if we were created by apes. It's part of God's plan. But people have to find these things out on their own. That's part of God's plan, too.

If that's what a soul is, I certainly don't have one. And that doesn't mean I am ignorant.

More seriously ... the question leads directly to the step where people begin to ask what kind of people possess souls, differentiating between race, status, personality, even age. Do unborn humans have a soul?

On the other hand, do unborn humans wonder about hell and heaven and stuff more than cats or apes do? Or the handicapped or comatose? The traumatized and anguished?!

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Is there a second-hand shop for souls? There must be a place where you can buy the souls the people sold, right? ;)

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I don't believe in Evolution, by the way. But if it's a fact that I possess a thing called soul, I want proof. Plus I want to know what it is good for.
The whole concept seems strange for me.

Edited on August 30, 2008 at 1:07 PM Quote

By the way, did you hear of that robot that is controlled by a LIVING brain?!
http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=1-0eZytv6Qk

Does this thing have a soul? Where is the soul situated?!

Edited on August 30, 2008 at 1:14 PM Quote

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=mbO-tOrFMbA

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Could you explain this scripture to me?

My arms, legs, etc. sure feel like they are made of flesh.

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Please don't be offended by all my questions. I just really wanna know. I never knew what a "soul" is supposed to be.

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mel wrote:Is there a second-hand shop for souls? There must be a place where you can buy the souls the people sold, right? ;)

I've a hole
in my soul
the rain gets in
and drowns my mind
i shake it out
and lose some thought

(it almost rhymes!) :-/

Edited on August 31, 2008 at 11:33 AM Quote

A soul is the immaterial part of a person....our inner identity, the 'I' is the soul... and it survives the death of body. Everyone has it, animals too.

Edited on August 31, 2008 at 12:17 PM Quote

MrsM wrote:

mel wrote:Please don't be offended by all my questions. I just really wanna know. I never knew what a "soul" is supposed to be.

I put the question up for discussion. I'm not here to give answers. What do you think a soul is supposed to be?

Attezo wrote:A soul is the immaterial part of a person....our identity, the 'I' is the soul... and it survives the death of body. Everyone has it, animals too.

Did you see the movie, Dead Poets' Society? A lot of things depend on point of view.

I find it hard to believe that there is some immaterial part of me that gives me my identity (and that has nothing to do with my not haven any ID at the moment LMAO!).

What is identity anyway? Don't we all change constantly? Isn't our identity what we choose to believe in, what we choose to like and what we choose to, ... think?

If there is an immaterial part of me that does these things for me, who decided what this identity was going to be like?

If I am not the owner & MAKER of my identity (thus, changing and remodeling constantly ...), .... who is?!

If people have souls, can there be people without souls too? How do you get one?

I don't know what a soul is supposed to be. I checked Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soul

From what I read, I think the concept of having a "Soul" is just another way of coping with death (hoping that an immortal part of a person still goes on).

I'm full of questions.

Edited on August 31, 2008 at 12:25 PM Quote

Breath isn't visible. It sure seems logical to me that before science knew how respiration works, people attached a religious concept to that mysterious draft of air that is constantly exhaled by any person ??

(compare the Hebrew word for Soul, nephesh ...)

Edited on August 31, 2008 at 12:31 PM Quote

Check for further reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephesh
...

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mel wrote:

What is identity anyway? Don't we all change constantly? Isn't our identity what we choose to believe in, what we choose to like and what we choose to, ... think?

Identity is who we are, and it doesn't change but grows through life experiences, and keeps on growing through our life and spiritual journey both when we are alive and when our soul leaves the body, is what i believe.

mel wrote:
If there is an immaterial part of me that does these things for me, who decided what this identity was going to be like?

I believe each soul is unique and as for the question "who decided what identity was going to be like?" my answer is: depends what you believe...*I* believe God gave us a soul that defines us, however the soul grows in this journey...as i explained in the previous paragraph.

mel wrote:
If I am not the owner & MAKER of my identity (thus, changing and remodeling constantly ...), .... who is?!

I believe is God/ a higher power. There is a plan for each of us, and it depends on us to grow and evolve.

mel wrote:
If people have souls, can there be people without souls too? How do you get one?

There cannot be people without souls, it wouldn't make sense 'for me' because our journey doesn't stop when we die but continues. Our level of consciousness is not developed enough, there are a lot of things happening around us that our 'eyes' cannot see.

Edited on August 31, 2008 at 1:19 PM Quote

what we choose to like and believe keeps on enriching our soul - the 'I'. We all take different paths, doesn't make any of us better or worst than others, it's all a 'lesson experience', there is not a perfect soul, we are all different and unique and that's what it makes us all beautiful. :)

Edited on August 31, 2008 at 1:31 PM Quote

MrsM wrote:I have a question for all the people who believe in Evolution, No Hell, No God. How do you explain the fact that you have a Soul in your body. Or do you think you don't have one??

If I do have a soul I have never had it shown to me. No one can tell me what it does for me or how it works. Why should I think I have one?

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mel wrote:

CatBallou wrote:

MrsM wrote:A corpse is a body without life. A living body has a soul (life).

By definition, doesn't that also mean that apes and any other creature or living organism would have soul too? They all have bodies too. They just aren't human bodies.

And plants?

And if "soul" just means alive then it presents no problem for evolution either.

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MrsM wrote:The fact that you have a soul is what makes you ask, "What is heaven, what is hell, and What does God have to do with any of this." Your soul lead you to make assumptions about who we are, try to find out the why's and to question if we were created by apes. It's part of God's plan. But people have to find these things out on their own. That's part of God's plan, too.

Sounds like you are attributing attributes of our brains and capacity to reason to the "soul". or are you just calling our brain and its physical processes "soul". If so, why? Why the need to relabel it and why assume there is something divine or supernatural about the brain?

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musicjeni wrote:
I didn't know you spoke Hat!!

Sorry for threadjacking. I just wanted to share some "Hat"..

Edited on September 1, 2008 at 1:12 AM Quote

Personally, The only way I might suspect I had a "soul" is if I had one of those "near death" experiences and experienced some astral body leave, and a tunnel or some of that near-death stuff... assuming I ruled out hallucination, dreaming, morphine induced tripping, or endorphan type stuff... Currently, as stated, I DO NOT know how a soul differs from emotion and imagination..

"Soul" is usually used by religious individuals to describe something religious, besides that, I haven't a clue how it differs from what I would describe as emotion, and some sense of communicating with something somewhere, or some feeling of connection with something abstract... Dunno... Most of what I feel has an explanation and isn't "soul"... Even if it's a spiritual feeling.. To me the term means some type of emotional mystical type thought quest or differing emotional longing sensation. It's all "mind" stuff IMHO.. it doesn't differ.

I always felt when in school, my soul was wondering out the window of the classroom and fusing with trees and the sky, and people doing stuff outside...

In the aforementioned example

soul=bored xitless and daydreaming ! in most cases it's "wandering", "being spaced out", "Imagining" "feeling some different sensation some call feeling spiritual" but it's always in my case directly link with emotional feeling stemming from mood, physical state, etc

Edited on September 1, 2008 at 1:27 AM Quote

Steven_Kaplan wrote:

musicjeni wrote:
I didn't know you spoke Hat!!

Sorry for threadjacking. I just wanted to share some "Hat"..

LMAO!

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There's been a study which presents the conclusion, that immediately upon death, the body looses several grams of weight, which can't be accounted for by any scientific/medical reason. The studies have included animals and they differ in results, but as insofar as humans are concerned, the only example of this experiment I've located is seen in following link.

http://www.ghostweb.com/soul.html

One never knows. Another one that can't be proven or disproved.

Edited on September 1, 2008 at 1:52 AM Quote

Aha! Found proof of the soul/ghost

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I'm not sure either, but I found this interesting.
http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

Thing is, the body does change composition right after death doesn't it ? Wouldn't there be a change in muscle ? I don't know.. Just thinking.. Maybe the sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system no longer functioning accounts for some conversion in the muscle-skeletal system... If this happens to be correct, can I get printed in Snopes too ? :) hehehe.. Of course if sphincter control and bladder control go too that would account for some weight loss...

<heading to bottle or tranqs, now I'm going to be having nightmares>

Edited on September 1, 2008 at 2:50 AM Quote

I do miss Casper ! Casper was cool ! Hard to believe he was black and white television though.. meaning 44-45 years ago (1964)... Doesn't seem longer than 42 years and 4 months but who's scrutinizing ?

Edited on September 1, 2008 at 2:55 AM Quote

I'm at work (lunch break) so I won't click on a "ghostweb" link (what kind of a site is that? Just so I know...)

I did google those experiments with weightloss at death. Well it sure sounds interesting, but without exact methods (look at the balances being used!!!) it can hardly be called an accurate scientific experiment.

Furthermore, how would a loss of WEIGHT (caused by matter) prove the existence of an IMMATERIAL soul?

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Yahoo Answers wrote:
völlig unbeleckt vom Wissen um das Gewicht der Seele spricht der Messknecht: Wenn der Sterbende 80 kg wiegt, dann sind 21 Gramm 0,2625 Promille von 80.000 Gramm. Gute Waagen haben eine Genauigkeit von 1 Prozent des Endausschlags, damit sehe ich schon mal keine Möglichkeit, so fein zu messen. Erschwerend kommt hinzu, dass jede Messung fehlerbehaftet sein kann und deshalb etliche Male wiederholt werden sollte; auch das dürfte im vorliegenden Experiment nicht so einfach sein.

I found this while Googling the topic; it says: if a human body weighs 80 kg and loses 21g at death, it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to notice this accurately with a balance, since these usually have a 1 % margin of error and 21 g constitute only 0,02625 % of the mass.

By the way, it is not that easy to accurately determine the time of death either.

Doesn't help that these experiments were carried out 101 years ago, when both scales and medical science weren't as good as today.

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mel wrote:
völlig unbeleckt vom Wissen um das Gewicht der Seele spricht der Messknecht: Wenn der Sterbende 80 kg wiegt, dann sind 21 Gramm 0,2625 Promille von 80.000 Gramm. Gute Waagen haben eine Genauigkeit von 1 Prozent des Endausschlags, damit sehe ich schon mal keine Möglichkeit, so fein zu messen. Erschwerend kommt hinzu, dass jede Messung fehlerbehaftet sein kann und deshalb etliche Male wiederholt werden sollte; auch das dürfte im vorliegenden Experiment nicht so einfach sein.

Funny thing is, I was just saying this exact same thing to a neighbor on the phone this morning !

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Sirfitz wrote:There's been a study which presents the conclusion, that immediately upon death, the body looses several grams of weight, which can't be accounted for by any scientific/medical reason. The studies have included animals and they differ in results, but as insofar as humans are concerned, the only example of this experiment I've located is seen in following link.

http://www.ghostweb.com/soul.html

One never knows. Another one that can't be proven or disproved.

Welcome to the oft-visited (in paranormal circles, anyway) realm of irreproducible results. In 1907 a Massachusetts doctor named Duncan MacDougall of Haverhill, Massachusetts, devised a series of experiments that he expected would measure the soul. Using six terminally ill patients on a specially constructed scale bed, he measured their weight before, during, and after death. His results were mixed, but he concluded that there was indeed a very slight loss of weight, on average twenty-one grams. When he repeated this test on (presumably soulless) animals, he found no such weight reduction. After eliminating the possible sources of error for this startling finding (such as the loss of air from the lungs), MacDougall concluded that he had finally quantified the weight of the soul.

MacDougall's efforts are a good example of pseudoscience. On the face of it, the experiments seem fairly straightforward (either a body weighs less just after death or it doesn't), but a closer look reveals varied and profound flaws in his methodology. For one thing, MacDougall used a very small sample size, and his results were inconsistent; some bodies lost more than an ounce, others far less. As myth debunker Barbara Mikkelson concluded, "out of six tests, two had to be discarded, one showed an immediate drop in weight (and nothing more), two showed an immediate drop in weight which increased with the passage of time, and one showed an immediate drop in weight which reversed itself but later recurred." Furthermore, the precise moment of death is not always clear even today, and in 1907 medical measurement methods were even cruder. (Readers interested in the process of dying should seek out Alan King's brilliant and moving 2003 documentary Dying at Grace.)

With tighter protocols and better diagnostic tools, if the soul does indeed exist, and does indeed have a measurable weight, then science should be able to verify it. MacDougall died in 1920, and in the century since his first experiments, no one has reproduced his results. Just as MacDougall's name has been stripped from his findings, so have the fatal design errors in his work. All that remains is the easily remembered "fact" that the soul weighs twenty-one grams. And like the oft-debunked factoid that people only use ten percent of their brains, the belief that the soul has weight will likely live on.

References

MacDougall, Duncan. 1907. The Soul: Hypothesis concerning soul substance together with experimental evidence of the existence of such substance. American Medicine, April.

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