KJ/DJ legal stuff question...

There are quite a few KJs on here... First American that comes to mind is Karaokegod73. He's very helpful and knowledgeable.

But from what I know, most bars/clubs have a blanket license and the actual KJ doesn't necessarily need any special stuff, but that depends on the venue.

But I really have no idea. I could be completely wrong.

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As Novella said, kg would be da man on this, but I think she's right that as long as you're using purchased, legally obtained discs or downloaded songs, the bar or club's license to ASCAP, BMI, or whatever, would cover you as well. Same as any live band that might play there.

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Some DJ and karaoke companies may also be licensed themselves, but I don't believe it's necessary as long as the establishment has the license. And if they don't and are caught, they get the fine not the DJ. The fees are paid according to the capacity of the building, or average attendance (one of those).

And obviously steer clear of any pre-loaded hard drives or other machines, those are completely illegal.

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Laws differ slightly over in the USA to here in the UK, but one thing I would strongly suggest she gets is Public Liability Insurance (PLI)

It's not compulsory, although some establishments do require you to have it to work within them, but for pure peace of mind should something happen to a patron whilst using her equipment, it's a must.

Shop around though, prices vary!!

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She'd still need to get PLI, Angi..perhaps even more need for it at private parties, as they can get a lot wilder than public places where doormen might be present.

Whatever she decides to do, I wish her well!

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karaokegod73 wrote:Some DJ and karaoke companies may also be licensed themselves, but I don't believe it's necessary as long as the establishment has the license. And if they don't and are caught, they get the fine not the DJ. The fees are paid according to the capacity of the building, or average attendance (one of those).

And obviously steer clear of any pre-loaded hard drives or other machines, those are completely illegal.

I'm thinkin about becoming a KJ also... when you say ''preloaded machines/HD's"" you mean these ''53,000 songs factory deals''' I've seen them... What about using your own special made computer ?? and some of your own cdg's From what I've seen not everyone use cdg CD's but many have them all ripped onto a hard drive. Also do you have any advise to software for searching and playing the files?
thanks

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Anything offered with songs included loaded on to a hard drive without the disks they came from is illegal. They used to be commonly seen on ebay but the manufacturers pleaded to them to kill the listings, so you don't see them much anymore. A bar I used to work at got theirs at an expo...I don't know why they allow sales of illegal things at an expo. And many bar owners don't know anything about karaoke and legalities, only want to save money.

As far as loading your own legally bought karaoke onto a computer, you will not get "busted" for it as long as you have the original disks (at least not by anyone representing a karaoke manufacturer). But is it "legal"? Not really. The licensing for the karaoke tracks does not allow them the right to say we can copy them.

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There's a couple of really interesting threads on this karaoke site which goes into a lot about the legalities of storing discs on hard drives here:

http://www.karaokeinfo.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8936

http://www.karaokeinfo.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9449&PID=161186#161186

Several manufacturers, including Sound Choice, Sunfly, Zoom and Laughing Gnome have given input.

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i just think it sucks to have to pull out cd's for each person to sing lol but if thats what yoiu have to do then so be it... I go to okc,shawnee and other places and see how the Kj's work they have the cdg cds but they have them stored on the PC... maybe the laws are not enforced as much here in oklahoma. I still have a few of their cards ... may call and ask how it works in my area

I just called a KJ who said he keeps his originals with him but has them on his hard drive too... to make it easier. He quit doing the clubs because they wanted him to do it way to cheap. For this area he recommends private venues and charge no less than 100 dollars an hour...

Edited on December 4, 2008 at 4:38 PM Quote

Actually Chris/Goat, I envy your local situation a bit and you don't know how lucky you are. In my city all the local shows suck and even if I drive an hour to go to a decent show, it will still have one thing in common with the crappy shows. Namely, that all the shows are computerized with no disc player. So me, with my over 75 discs that I've legally bought over the years so I could have song options that are not in the show's songbook at most Iowa shows, find these discs useless at almost all Iowa shows.

Believe me, I had good reason to buy these discs several years ago before the KJs all went computerized because most of them were so country-heavy, which I hate, in their songlists that I usually had nothing to sing that I liked.

It won't surprise you to know that when I ask them why they don't keep a disc player at the shows for singers like me to use their discs on, they give various reasons from "it's too much trouble, we can't be sure yours are legal (like there's any way to tell their songs are?), we don't know the song and don't want to risk playing something too offensive, or even, we don't want the liability if something happens to your disc".

Yet, I've been told by other KJs on websites that it would be as simple as setting up a toggle switch between their computer, the sound mixer and the player, assuming that they were computer knowledgeable enuf to set up their computer so it's keychanger, if that's what their keychanger is on, would still run with the disc player operating. And the disc player they hooked up could be as simple as a Playstation, lol!

It tells me that the real reason is that they're lazy, don't want to fool with discs anymore and don't give a damn about customer service either, since they also won't try to buy the songs for themselves if I ask them to add them, usually being the only one who would sing those songs.
It sucks being a hip alt/rock pop type in a state where karaoke only caters to country music and oldies lovers who really don't even care if the KJ updates their songlist very often.

But when I go on vacation to either coast or even to Kansas City, I have no problem finding shows with disc players. I wonder why, could it be the singers there expect more from KJs so they get it?

Edited on December 4, 2008 at 5:29 PM Quote

Tom wrote:It tells me that the real reason is that they're lazy, don't want to fool with discs anymore and don't give a damn about customer service either, since they also won't try to buy the songs for themselves if I ask them to add them, usually being the only one who would sing those songs.

Yep, that would be it, lol

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Mandy wrote:

Tom wrote:It tells me that the real reason is that they're lazy, don't want to fool with discs anymore and don't give a damn about customer service either, since they also won't try to buy the songs for themselves if I ask them to add them, usually being the only one who would sing those songs.

Yep, that would be it, lol

Thanks for your validation Mandy, as you're an experienced pro of a KJ, and probably too good for the pub shows these days. You're also in good company as Harry, the Florida KJ we both know from Jolt, and Lonnie, the Jolter KJ from Washington state here in the US, both told me the same thing, lol!

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I'll be honest Tom, after 13 years of doing this, I'm getting kinda tired of it. Not tired of the singing, or the people, but tired of having to compete with people that:

download illegally, don't pay tax, don't bother protecting themselves (and therefore their patrons) by buying PLI, have no customer service, but are cheap so people hire them, the expensive prices and smoking bans (and whether you are a smoker or not, you have to admit the dynamics of a night out are radically changed by this)..it's making it oh so hard these days...

..and I'm just getting to the point where as much as I love karaoke, I'd rather have a full time job during the day, and just go out to sing instead.

The trouble with that is, (lol)..I'm bloody fussy about the karaokes that I go to, lmao!!

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And as for Harry and Lonnie....top geezers both of them! Harry I have met, and he is a diamond, Lonnie I would love to meet, if only for him to tickle me with his feather duster! LOL

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I'm fussy too, Mandy. So is the wife. That's why we haven't been out to sing since Sept., lol, and we're driving an hour each way for the privilege this Sat to sing for the first time since then. But, it should be great fun.
BTW, it was Simi, from Jolt, who told me a tech savvy KJ would be able to hook their computer system to a Sony PlayStation, if they wanted to, and be able to play my discs, lol!

Man, I miss the old days of that site sometimes....
BTW, the smoking ban that began in my state in July hasn't seemed to hurt karaoke, from what I've heard thru the grapevine, but then again Iowa and the UK are way different, mostly for the better on your end I think...........

Edited on December 4, 2008 at 6:31 PM Quote

I've been reading forums and seeing many people getting out of the business because they aren't able to compete with the cut-throat downloaders and pre=loaded hard drive buyers.. Around here though, people still seem to be charging a fair price for their shows and I am hoping to do well when I return to the business next year.

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kg, I'm glad to hear you're coming back and I wish you the best!

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tom sorry to hear that really from what I've read a laptop/pc drive can be made able to read cd+g disc's =/ sounds like a load of bull to me...

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UFOz8MyGoat wrote:tom sorry to hear that really from what I've read a laptop/pc drive can be made able to read cd+g disc's =/ sounds like a load of bull to me...

You're right, that's what's so maddening is that they're all using laptops!

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I had a question about burning my own legally bought karaoke cd+g disks ... At this point starting out I cannot afford to go to deep into purchasing factory sets... So as an alternative I've thought about purchasing the mp3's from my music service for $1 USD each and making the cdg's myslef... I use http://napster.com


Here's some examples of one's i've made from these tracks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQt_z2RZk5A&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5dOqkuI93s

I appreciate all the input,questions etc very much

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i know tom lol ALL the places I go will take a disc from someone and set it aside for their turn I've seen them play the disc on the laptops too ... If I was you i'd call and complain that's nonsense

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I'm not an expert Goat, but I'd say making your own karaoke disc and using it to sing with is fine at home but a legal no-no once you take it public by using it on SS or at a public karaoke show since you have no license for combining the music track with the lyrics/graphics that you are adding on your computer.

Jus sayin'

As for these KJs, I have no one to call since almost all of them are self-employed one-man operations.

Edited on December 5, 2008 at 1:41 PM Quote

yea i was kinda thinking of that being an issue also owning the track is one thing but that's only half of it... and about the bars/karaoke venues ya they change Kj's alot but you could call the place and complain tho it would not do much good lol I have the same problem ... spend all the time looking through their books and never find the song you want even though they have 1,000 more by the same artist lol very frustrating.

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UFOz8MyGoat wrote:yea i was kinda thinking of that being an issue also owning the track is one thing but that's only half of it... and about the bars/karaoke venues ya they change Kj's alot but you could call the place and complain tho it would not do much good lol I have the same problem ... spend all the time looking through their books and never find the song you want even though they have 1,000 more by the same artist lol very frustrating.

Exactly, Okieland is probably a lot like Iowa. They have every song Elvis even thought about recording as well as plenty of country, but little for types like you and me. Alto I did visit a show in Bartlesville once that shocked the hell out of me when I saw the KJ's book had a few songs by The Smiths, one of my favorite alt/indie bands, along with some other cool songs and artists. But he also claimed his old disc player wouldn't work for my discs, which I knew was a crock or he wouldn't have had it there in the first place along with his computer system.

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Making CDG files with those tracks is not advised. To make them legal a sync license must be paid. Sometimes the cost of this license alone prevents songs from even being made on karaoke (at least by the legal brands that actually pay the fees) for a long time. If the manufacturers can't make the money to make buying the license worthwhile, you won't either.

And also the tracks are not sold to you for commercial purposes. You'd have to get permission from Sound Choice or whoever made the instrumentals...good luck there too.

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I'm looking to find someone going out of the bizz and maybe get a good deal ... seems like most the cost is in the cdg's not the equipment. Been looking for some auctions and man even used they are not cheap. Plus it's hard to find a good mix of what iI think people would like to sing. But you have to start somewhere. Like the guy I talked to said better safe than sorry... you can have whatever on your hard drive but you better have them backed up !! all the auctions i've looked at are club type stuff techno ... that would not fly around here ...
If anyone see's a good set of chartbuster or sound choice used plz send me a link lol

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maybe soon with everything going to computers and digital kind of like music... we will be able to by cdg's cheaper and legally online.

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UFOz8MyGoat wrote:maybe soon with everything going to computers and digital kind of like music... we will be able to by cdg's cheaper and legally online.

You can already buy karaoke tracks thru online download in mp3 form, legally.

Edited on December 5, 2008 at 5:51 PM Quote

I have heard that ... guess you would have to ask for an invoice to be safe in case your ever questioned... The KJ told me there is a place you can get them about 1-2 bucks USD per song but he said they may not be top quality... can always sync them with the track you like lol I'm doing that now. Finding the good cdg's and adjusting them to match and sync the tracks/types I like.

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off bearshare it's weird you browse a host and they have the cdg's shared but not the mp3's m,aybe they are hoping to get lucky and fin a match also who kmows

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While I don't know for absolute sure, I think it's safe for me to say anything home-made in this manner is not legal for commercial use.

If you are serious about finding the answers to any questions, Tony Walstra at Stellar Records (who make the "Pop Hits Monthly" and "Sing It Now" karaoke series) has always been communicative with me on legal karaoke issues.

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If your friend is doing this for a private party. and not charging for the karaoke. she needs nothing... But if she sell's any cd's or profit's in any way from karaoke.she may want to look into ASCAP. BMI. or any overseas entity that govern the sales. or machanical rights to any of her collection. but she can still sell hot dogs:)peace

Edited on December 8, 2008 at 11:07 PM Quote

As an ex-uk KJ, i would advise the PLI Mandy mentioned - everyones sueing everyone these days for the slightest thing. Also, PAT testing equipment is a must for insurance reasons.

Good luck to you if you are doing it - I found the market well-below inflation, especially since the smoke ban. Also, people are getting more violent too - just my experience in Leeds & Plymouth. I went back to being in bands, much more fun, you sing more and have back up if things get rough. Pack your kj stuff in the van too and offer a disco/band/karaoke all in package for weddings, etc - much better money and all round fun.

Merry xmas!

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You are free to provide services, within any confined space that is not open to broadcast further than local radius listening distances, without any license. You may run a business without a license in a period known as "initial set up" to make moneys necessary to effect a license, however this may last years, noone knows...what goes.

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In as much as you buy a CDG you may do what ever you wish in copying it as long as you are not selling them to another, as for playing them in systems they all belong to YOU....you are not selling them. You are within a confined space therefore you are not infringing on the grounds of broadcast beyond confined quarters or over airwaves for the purpose of having someone else record the music etc.

You will do fine, just make sure you use a good label cpier

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That statement is completely incorrect.

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Yeah - totally wrong

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Copyright laws vary from country to country, what may be legal in one part of the world, may not be so in another.

Last I knew, citizens of the USA could make one back up copy for personal use (not for use at karaoke shows) whereas in the UK, it's illegal to make a back up copy at all, for personal or professional use.

A lot of problems have arisen over here because of the DJ's license that has come up, which does not yet cover karaoke, and the terminology is all so vague, it's really difficult to know exactly what you are allowed to do and what you're not.

That's why lawyers get paid handsomely, and we KJs/DJs try to scrape a living!!

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