Pot calling kettle...

This topic is listed in Singing & Songwriting Tips. It has been viewed 600 times and 34 replies have been made.

JustjaydanceLEVEL 20

Post by Justjaydance

Not going to name and shame or look for an argument but OMG been scrolling through some of the “post me your song and I’ll tell you if your bad or not” to then visit this “experts” channel and hear that they sound like a dying cat... (yet offer “advice”)

Opinion is one thing - advice is another...

Do yourself a favour SING because you want to sing and if you REALLY want help or advice seek advice from professionals/actual singers within the industry or a singing tutor. SOME of the advice I’ve read is terrible and WILL NOT help you. One wrote to “Force the note from your throat” I can tell you that is NOT a good thing to do... all notes should be supported from your diaphragm. I am a working singer within the current industry and I STILL wouldn’t feel comfortable setting up a group “x factor audition” style critique board. Lol... if you want an general opinion from people GO FOR IT... but seek ADVICE from the right ones.

Just sing because you love singing and remember just because one person may tell you your singing is bad - doesn’t mean they’re right. ESPECIALLY when they’re worse than you. Jay x x

ImaChristian2

Reply by ImaChristian2GOLD +2

HAAHA! Thanks For the Nice Gift and lump of Coal Anonymous! You are so right! BAWK BAWK BAWK!

Opinion is one thing - advice is another...

Justjaydance


Which one is this? BAAAHAAAhahahahahaha!

ncspxjbarLEVEL 1

Reply by ncspxjbar

This reply has been deleted by the topic creator.

Tinypumpkin

Reply by TinypumpkinGOLD +17

Reindeer Games :- Hard Candy Christmas

Can Simon Cowell sing?

sabathielLEVEL 41

Reply by sabathiel

Can Angelo Dundee box?

Angelo Dundee (born Angelo Mirena; August 30, 1921 – February 1, 2012) was an American boxing trainer and cornerman. Best known for his work with Muhammad Ali (1960–1981), he also worked with 15 other world boxing champions, including Sugar Ray Leonard, José Nápoles, George Foreman, George Scott, Jimmy Ellis, Carmen Basilio, Luis Manuel Rodríguez and Willie Pastrano

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelo_Dundee

Michael1951LEVEL 75

Reply by Michael1951GOLD

Having a "good ear" doesn't guarantee a "a good voice"....don't think you made your case here. take care.

zacharydiva

Reply by zacharydivaCHAT-ADMIN

Having a "good ear" doesn't guarantee a "a good voice"....don't think you made your case here. take care.Michael1951

Very true... Burt Bacharach has an incredible ear, has penned a zillion hits, but should never sing in public...ever. Ever.

On the flip side, I can understand how someone receiving advice from someone who can’t sing their way out of a bag would be rejected. Even if they have all the degrees and experience to back up their advice, i would imagine that people would normally be more receptive to vocal opinions and advice from someone who can actually sing. Both sides of the fence.

ZZ-EdLEVEL 65

Reply by ZZ-EdGOLD

Not going to name and shame or look for an argument but OMG been scrolling through some of the “post me your song and I’ll tell you if your bad or not” to then visit this “experts” channel and hear that they sound like a dying cat... (yet offer “advice”)
Justjaydance

Well said...but frankly I think you are wasting you breath. (even if it correctly comes from the diaphragm) I have listened to you sing. Outstanding and professional. I think we are fortunate to have you here.

And I loved your performance in "Shaun of the Dead."

JustjaydanceLEVEL 20

Reply by Justjaydance

Not going to name and shame or look for an argument but OMG been scrolling through some of the “post me your song and I’ll tell you if your bad or not” to then visit this “experts” channel and hear that they sound like a dying cat... (yet offer “advice”)
Justjaydance

Well said...but frankly I think you are wasting you breath. (even if it correctly comes from the diaphragm) I have listened to you sing. Outstanding and professional. I think we are fortunate to have you here.

And I loved your performance in "Shaun of the Dead."

ZZ-Ed

Hahahaha! Mate that’s made my night lol!!
You’re not the first to say that and probably won’t be the last. Had that and also Jimmy Somerville? Lol

JustjaydanceLEVEL 20

Reply by Justjaydance

Having a "good ear" doesn't guarantee a "a good voice"....don't think you made your case here. take care.Michael1951

Didn’t say that - what my point is people that go out to “set up” a forum telling people HOW to sing and then giving people bad advice on technique when they can’t even sing themselves or even sing correctly!

JustjaydanceLEVEL 20

Reply by Justjaydance

Opinion is one thing - advice is another...

Justjaydance


Which one is this? BAAAHAAAhahahahahaha!ImaChristian2

It’s my opinion on giving people advice and my advice (from a professional point of few) on people’s opinions on them.

JustjaydanceLEVEL 20

Reply by Justjaydance

Having a "good ear" doesn't guarantee a "a good voice"....don't think you made your case here. take care.Michael1951

Very true... Burt Bacharach has an incredible ear, has penned a zillion hits, but should never sing in public...ever. Ever.

On the flip side, I can understand how someone receiving advice from someone who can’t sing their way out of a bag would be rejected. Even if they have all the degrees and experience to back up their advice, i would imagine that people would normally be more receptive to vocal opinions and advice from someone who can actually sing. Both sides of the fence.zacharydiva

Exactly - if you want an opinion from a record producer (including Simon Cowell as someone mentioned) they listen to your voice based PURELY on your tone, strength and also looks/personality. Hence once you are signed to a record deal you are assigned a Singing tutor as people like Simon cowell DOESNT sing and has no clue on technique or vocal control/breath technique etc..
He is the manager of SYCO and just wants to sell records.

My point is the same on here.. people can say “yeh you sound great” because they like your tone - but that doesn’t mean you’re singing correctly. So giving advice to someone just because you think they sound okay/good isn’t sometimes the best thing unless you know what you’re talking about. Which back to my original point of you shouldn’t be dishing out wrong advice on “Singing practice” unless you actually know what you’re talking about.

JustjaydanceLEVEL 20

Reply by Justjaydance

Can Simon Cowell sing? Tinypumpkin

See point/my response below on this...

sabathielLEVEL 41

Edited reply by sabathiel

Exactly - if you want an opinion from a record producer (including Simon Cowell as someone mentioned) they listen to your voice based PURELY on your tone, strength and also looks/personality.Justjaydance

Not entirely true. People at the level of Simon Cowell even if not singing experts in the technical sense will also judge other criterion such as pitch, emotional impact, vocal and stage presence, the je nais sais quoi factor (x factor), commercial appeal, ability to connect with the song and the audience, phrasing and many other factors that the "average" ordinary listeners have no real awareness of. If you have been in the music business for decades and have that "magic" intuition of spotting an artist's potential to be commercially successful then your sense to judge a singer is far beyond basic skills. Many famous successful music industry executives or producers cannot sing even if they lives depend on it but they are highly intuitive and musically savvy to judge a singer far beyond the basic factors of singing alone. In many instances these "geniuses" are far more spot on in judging a singer than vocal coaches who have abundance of technical singing knowledge. To name a few other than Simon Cowell and Burt Bacharach already mentioned are names like Clive Davis, David Foster, Herb Alpert, Quincy Jones, George Martin, Brian Eno, Phil Spector. Sure in some cases these people can sing but nothing flashy or great about their singing certainly nowhere near the talent of singing of the people they have mentored or discovered.

Hence once you are signed to a record deal you are assigned a Singing tutor as people like Simon cowell DOESNT sing and has no clue on technique or vocal control/breath technique etc.. Justjaydance

There are many singers regarded as great and iconic but with bad technique or what is considered not sound technique. To name a few Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin and Rod Stewart. Even if they lack the proper technique their names and souls are stamped over all their performances as they exude and project emotional depth, soul and their personalities in their songs that in many instances midget the singing of highly technical singers yet devoid of any emotional substance or originality in the songs they sing. Technique is just one factor to consider in judging a singer. While technique is no doubt important as the better the technique the easier you can produce sounds vocally and that means you can focus more on the emotional delivery of the song and other artistic variables of the singing at the end of the day each singer does whatever works for them and that may differ from person to person. Obviously the basic technique should be there but highly proficient in technique is not mandatory to be successful as in the technical department there are many many school of thoughts teaching different techniques and often they disagree with one another on many issues.

He is the manager of SYCO and just wants to sell records. Justjaydance

While at the end of the day this may be true as the dominant motive of anyone engaging in commercial enterprises it is highly simplistic to narrow down to just one motive why people work as what they work as in any business. I have no doubt some degree of altruism exists in the hearts of great music producers in that they also work as a service to promote great musical talents in that when they hear an obscure great singer sings it springs into their minds something like "this person need to be heard by the world" or "talent like this should be shared on the global stage" or "oh my....I'd like to help him/her to be famous with a voice like that". Great people in any business are driven more than money but also the passion and drive to excel in whatever they do for a living because they love their job which at the end of the day gives them emotional and psychological fulfillment in their daily lives. Self-interest and altruism are not necessarily mutually exclusive.

JustjaydanceLEVEL 20

Reply by Justjaydance

I think people are missing the point of the initial thread... the point I’ll mention one more time is.

It doesn’t matter if you are a singer, producer, director or street worker - unless you know the facts about Singing and the correct way to look after your muscle (something many people go to college / university to learn like I did OR have learnt through previous and correct experience)... you shouldn’t really be giving advice on WHAT to do to improve. Especially when you yourself cannot sing and have absolutely no clue on what is right and what could potentially screw your vocal chords up.

I wouldn’t tell a practing footballer how to score a goal JUST because I’ve kicked a ball once and it nearly went in. Same applies with Singing. Just because you do karaoke, hit a few high notes or watch X factor does not make you an expert to be judging others.. if someone asks you - fair enough. But don’t go and set up a thread labelled “Send me your song - I’ll tell you what I think and give advice on how you can sing better” it may as well have said “I can’t sing - I have no experience - I don’t even know what vibrato means let alone spell it - but screw it I’ll give you some advice I think may work...send me your song and hope for the best”

Anyway I’m off to bed as it’s 4am... and have a gig tomorrow. Gonna try gargalling orange juice in the morning as apparently that’s amazing for the voice says this certain thread.... (FYI it’s not - it’s a terrible idea lol) night x

ClarelolaLEVEL 61

Reply by ClarelolaGOLD

Oo..fists up! I just loved reading this whole thread. Personally (that's a clue that what follows is opinion...) I agree with you regarding people giving advice on technique. Anyone (singers or non-) can listen and hear something that sounds good, bad, in tune, expressive, weak or plain old crap, but they should probably not enter into the advice-giving arena to coach a singer. If they do, said singer may wind up TKO'ed with the breath knocked out of their underexercised diaphragm. (There are also professional singers who have bad technique and they still manage to sound good - who coached them, I wonder?)

Anyways, it's way late, but I had to respond to let you know I agree: sing for the pleasure and if you want to learn more vocal technique ask someone who coaches, not another SS member lol. Unless that SS member is a coach - there is a syllogism in there somewhere...

OK and can I use freshly squozen oranges for my gargle or must they be "Tropicana" format?

Night night.

ClarelolaLEVEL 61

Reply by ClarelolaGOLD

Oh I forgot - for the record, I have ZERO vocal training although I am in a little local amateur choir and have picked up minor tips from our director. I would be in the "no position to give advice" category, but I will quite happily listen and give my opinion on songs, and yes, I will say, "Terrific job!" when it is sometimes not, but you know, if we are here to sing for pleasure, then we can also hear and give a bit of pleasure back, non?

ZZ-EdLEVEL 65

Edited reply by ZZ-EdGOLD

One should not confuse "Singer"...with "Entertainer."

Bob Dylan, John Prine, Rod Stewart, Willie Nelson...and easily 80 percent of all Country Singers are (IMHO)....not REALLY singers...but rather ENTERTAINERS. These I can tolerate and even...emulate.

Now if you want to talk Yoko Ono or Tiny Tim then...Just KILL me. I'm not sure even ENTERTAINER is accurate. Now we are getting into what I would call the "ODDITY" area. Somewhat like looking at a two headed snake being shown at a back-country side show.

But, I digress.

I'm sure that no one here would mind receiving the benefits of someone's higher education in the area of SINGING.

Please...enlighten up with your knowledge.

It is one thing to point out our musical ineptness ....but quite another to lead us to oral nirvana.

sabathielLEVEL 41

Reply by sabathiel


Same applies with Singing. Just because you do karaoke, hit a few high notes or watch X factor does not make you an expert to be judging others.. if someone asks you - fair enough. But don’t go and set up a thread labelled “Send me your song - I’ll tell you what I think and give advice on how you can sing better” it may as well have said “I can’t sing - I have no experience - I don’t even know what vibrato means let alone spell it - but screw it I’ll give you some advice I think may work...send me your song and hope for the best”

Justjaydance

Chill dude! It is Singsnap and the forum is all fun and games. We get all sorts of people here. I doubt anyone here takes any singing advice seriously and if they do they should get their head read. LOL I enjoy reading all kinds of posts here even singing advice but like anything I read here I take it with a grain of salt as anyone should. It is fun interacting with others and often when you get excited and say lots of things. Fun is more the norm and anything else where pearls of wisdom get thrown from time to time is more the exception than the general rule. And when someone says something stupid and really means it well you just chuckle.....it is all part of the dynamics of Singsnap fun.

BTW I enjoyed your rendition of Tears In Heaven......nice take and putting your own stamp on the song.......it's a different angle from the original Clapton version.....I never saw the song from such an angle before.....it won't satisfy the Clapton fans but if you are true to yourself and that is how you felt the song then that is how your feelings sound and that is the most important thing for any artist to do.

sabathielLEVEL 41

Edited reply by sabathiel

Bob Dylan, John Prine, Rod Stewart, Willie Nelson...and easily 80 percent of all Country Singers are (IMHO)....not REALLY singers...but rather ENTERTAINERS. These I can tolerate and even...emulate.

ZZ-Ed

Dylan an entertainer/songwriter? That just doesn't sound right. You can test the truth of certain things such as in the area of the arts or music in particular by saying it out loud or just gently and then wait for the feel. If it feels right then it is probably true. The cosmos will let you know! LOL If it sounds strange and odd the cosmos will yell a loud sound of silence and tell you "no dude....that's just wrong". Dylan is an artist of the highest order and while what he does may not qualify him as a textbook singer he sings and sings effectively. Effectively in the sense he sings his own songs in a manner that communicates the points and emotions of the song without any flashy movements or stage theatrics that make people focus on the visual just as much as the singing. Some songs I cannot imagine anyone else but Dylan singing it....such as "The Times They Are A Changin'" which is a highly political song or Like A Rolling Stone which Dylan sings with great effect in his own unique style. Although many Dylan songs are sung much better than Dylan himself such as "To Make You Feel My Love" (Garth Brooks/Billy Joel/Adele) when it comes to highly charged political songs Dylan sings his songs much better than anyone covering them because as a songwriter political songs are political messages and better communicated by the person writing those messages himself or at least people who hold those views. This makes Dylan more than an entertainer because political messages are not meant for pure entertainment but rather to make you think of what is happening in the world with a desire and ambition to change the world you live in. That is one of the added bonus of being a singer/songwriter......they are your songs with all your thoughts and emotions canvassed in a song which gives you lots of liberty and leeway as to what you consider the right way of "singing" the song.

An artist more than just sings but bleeds the soul to the point that they expose their souls naked and lay it out there for the masses to sense, hear and feel. To me an entertainer is someone as I already mentioned who focuses on stage theatrics and physical movements which are big parts of their performances. They sing the purpose to entertain rather than to reflect. A lower of the scale entertainer would be a cruise ship performer or an Elvis impersonator. You leave their shows feeling thoroughly entertained........you are filled with that feel good feeling inside. An A grade entertainer, and don't get me wrong they may also be singers of the highest order, would be Michael Jackson with all his dance moves, Elvis with all his hip thrusting and black man moves, KISS and Alice Cooper with all his stage theatrics and costumes. They put on a show that is beyond singing and add extra stuff on top of their singing. They sing and entertain but these A grade entertainers are of course artists of the highest order as their performances trigger reflection on their audience but of course some songs more than others create reflective effects. If all Elvis sings are songs like Hound Dog then yes he would only be an entertainer but he sings highly reflective songs as well like "An American Trilogy" and "If I Can Dream" and while he did not write these songs it was his execution and delivery of the song that make people reflect just as much as the lyrics and melody of the song themselves.

The main problem with simply describing an "artist" as an entertainer is that in the arts the word "entertainer" comes across as rather derogatory in the sense it diminishes your artistry. You may not be the classic textbook singer with all the nuances of proper technique but if you are a true artist singing without those techniques but however you excel in the story telling department and emotional delivery of complex issues and in particular if you wrote those songs yourself then you qualify to be called a singer even if not a singer in the conventional sense. Any vocal coach worth their grain of salt will and should tell you to focus on your story telling skills and emotional delivery of a song just as much as focusing on technical aspects of singing such as singing from your diaphragm, vowel modifications, pulling down head voice to blend with chest voice, bringing the sound more forward, making use of twang, singing light, right and bright by managing your vocal weight etc. Great vocal coaches not only make you better singers but bring out the artist in you by knowing what sounds best for the student rather than apply all the same things without discrimination to all students. Each singer is different and your best sound may not be orthodox or conventional but it is at the end of the day the sound of your soul manifesting in voice. It would be hard to imagine people like Michael Jackson, Bob Dylan, Willie Nelson, Rod Stewart, Macy Gray and Cyndi Lauper singing in any other way or any other sound than in the way that the world already know how they sound even if there is no doubt they could sound different if they wanted to. Their sounds are their trademarks with their names stamped on them because they are channeling from a much deeper place within themselves. They are the best versions of themselves.

sabathielLEVEL 41

Edited reply by sabathiel

It is somewhat derogatory to refer to an artist as merely an entertainer because even a circus monkey is an entertainer. The entertainer monkey can make you feel good but not create those reflective moments that artists spark within yourself.

ClarelolaLEVEL 61

Reply by ClarelolaGOLD

Musing: I think today's audience expects a lot of its singers. Not only must they sing but they must also compose. Way back in the day most singers sang songs that had been composed by others. We now seem to think that a singer is not worth their salt if they haven't written at least some of their own songs.

Not too on topic but this thread seems to be sliding around like butter on a hot pan.

ZZ-EdLEVEL 65

Reply by ZZ-EdGOLD

Bob Dylan, John Prine, Rod Stewart, Willie Nelson...and easily 80 percent of all Country Singers are (IMHO)....not REALLY singers...but rather ENTERTAINERS. These I can tolerate and even...emulate.

ZZ-Ed

Dylan an entertainer/songwriter? That just doesn't sound right. You can test the truth of certain things such as in the area of the arts or music in particular by saying it out loud or just gently and then wait for the feel. If it feels right then it is probably true. The cosmos will let you know! LOL If it sounds strange and odd the cosmos will yell a loud sound of silence and tell you "no dude....that's just wrong". Dylan is an artist of the highest order and while what he does may not qualify him as a textbook singer he sings and sings effectively. Effectively in the sense he sings his own songs in a manner that communicates the points and emotions of the song without any flashy movements or stage theatrics that make people focus on the visual just as much as the singing. Some songs I cannot imagine anyone else but Dylan singing it....such as "The Times They Are A Changin'" which is a highly political song or Like A Rolling Stone which Dylan sings with great effect in his own unique style. Although many Dylan songs are sung much better than Dylan himself such as "To Make You Feel My Love" (Garth Brooks/Billy Joel/Adele) when it comes to highly charged political songs Dylan sings his songs much better than anyone covering them because as a songwriter political songs are political messages and better communicated by the person writing those messages himself or at least people who hold those views. This makes Dylan more than an entertainer because political messages are not meant for pure entertainment but rather to make you think of what is happening in the world with a desire and ambition to change the world you live in. That is one of the added bonus of being a singer/songwriter......they are your songs with all your thoughts and emotions canvassed in a song which gives you lots of liberty and leeway as to what you consider the right way of "singing" the song.
sabathiel

Note: I said Dylan is not a "singer" but he was, in fact, a great song writer. BUT...I also believe that at one point, he (along with Picasso and many others before him), started believing his own press and began thinking that he could throw feces on the wall and call it art.

Anyone who's ever read the book "Tarantula" by Bob Dylan should recognize when someone is bullshitting us all and getting a good laugh out of what the public will swallow when it is wrapped in a FAMOUS name.

Or it could have simply been the drugs of the time.

sabathielLEVEL 41

Reply by sabathiel

Musing: I think today's audience expects a lot of its singers. Not only must they sing but they must also compose. Way back in the day most singers sang songs that had been composed by others. We now seem to think that a singer is not worth their salt if they haven't written at least some of their own songs.

Not too on topic but this thread seems to be sliding around like butter on a hot pan.Clarelola

There are no rules on the net...say what you wish.....it's a jungle in cyberspace!

sabathielLEVEL 41

Edited reply by sabathiel

BUT...I also believe that at one point, he (along with Picasso and many others before him), started believing his own press and began thinking that he could throw feces on the wall and call it art.

Anyone who's ever read the book "Tarantula" by Bob Dylan should recognize when someone is bullshitting us all and getting a good laugh out of what the public will swallow when it is wrapped in a FAMOUS name.

Or it could have simply been the drugs of the time.ZZ-Ed

There are examples of this:

"John Lennon received a letter from a pupil at Quarry Bank High School, which he had attended. The writer mentioned that the English master was making his class analyse Beatles' lyrics. (Lennon wrote an answer, dated 1 September 1967, which was auctioned by Christie's of London in 1992.) Lennon, amused that a teacher was putting so much effort into understanding the Beatles' lyrics, decided to write in his next song the most confusing lyrics that he could."

Lennon claimed he wrote the first two lines of I Am The Walrus on separate acid trips; he explained much of the song to Playboy in 1980:

"The first line was written on one acid trip one weekend. The second line was written on the next acid trip the next weekend, and it was filled in after I met Yoko ... I'd seen Allen Ginsberg and some other people who liked Dylan and Jesus going on about Hare Krishna. It was Ginsberg, in particular, I was referring to. The words 'Element'ry penguin' meant that it's naïve to just go around chanting Hare Krishna or putting all your faith in one idol. In those days I was writing obscurely, à la Dylan."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_the_Walrus

So you are not far from the truth except I believe even if the greats do these kind of stuff it is still art because they are by the nature of their souls.........artists. Proof? I Am The Walrus is a great song regardless of the jibberish lyrics. I don't think it would have worked with words that make sense.......I mean the melody of the lyrics and the psychedelic instrumentation blend in very fittingly with the nonsensical lyrics. I don't know if this was genius by intent or merely serendipity or a combination of both.

P.S.
Johnny Rotten from the sex pistols ain't a singer either but I'd take Dylan as a singer any day over Rotten. If Rotten was invited to do a vocal line on We Are The World he would not fit in anywhere in the song and he would have ruined the song but not Dylan. Listen to We Are The World, and pay attention to Dylan's line.......it fitted nicely into the song and many think it is the best line in the entire song to the point when they re-recorded the song for the Haiti Charity single many wanted to sing the Dylan line which eventually went to Lil' Wayne. I think it is relative to some degree. If your standard of what you call singing is Pavarotti or Aretha Franklin then Mick Jagger or even David Lee Roth ain't no singer by that standard as they mainly jump up and down like a two bob watch on stage.

sabathielLEVEL 41

Edited reply by sabathiel

At the end of the day you do what works for you. That is why I mentioned the word "effective" quite a few times. I did say Dylan does it effectively whether you agree or disagree whether he is a singer or not. All you have to do is sound pleasant and fit your vocal delivery to the songs you are singing. Obviously Dylan singing his own folk songs work or else nobody would buy his records......his delivery is effective. Of course if he was to sing opera or even heavy metal or power pop the way he sings it totally wouldn't work. As long as you sing in time, in tune, mean what you sing, deliver the song with emotion and throw in a bit of attitude (edge) to fit the lyrics and melody then you are a singer of some sort....plus pick the music style that fits your voice and musical delivery. The basics really are singing in pitch and in time.......it doesn't have to be auto-tune pitch perfect.....so long as you do not sound unpleasant or off key then you are set to "sing and entertain".

-Bev-LEVEL 102

Edited reply by -Bev-SPECIAL-EVENTS +1

Come and join the fun in the Singsnap Chorus forum/topic/b4196354

If you cant handle positive criticism then do not ask for advice...is my advice...

But I usually tell folks do you want my advice? OR do you want me to tell you something you really want me to say which is not something that would not be
truthful or, critical..?In that case what is the point of asking for advice if a person is not prepared to take that positive critque on board lol! However, overall my advice would be dont give advice..... Just keep calm and carry on singing because you love to sing!

However, remember this is a karaoke website, not the XFactor...or, Britain's Got Talent, or America's Got Talent, or, whatever country you are living in, it's not a contest to see if you can become rich and famous!! Mind you, If should you get rich and famous, remember me and my advice, when you make your millions...I can be your agent...LOL

As, for opinions each and every one of us are different with their opinions...no one person can be the same...when it comes to an opinion....If you can make sense of that...then you are better than I am lolololololol !!! However, life is too short to worry about how your singing is or anyone else's singing for that matter.....Just chill, enjoy life and enjoy singing if it makes you happy!! If it really bugs you about others singing....I suggest you just pass em by and get a life!! Have a nice day

ZZ-EdLEVEL 65

Edited reply by ZZ-EdGOLD

We have drifted far afield from the original thread...

I think, basically, this is someone who actually knew how to classical sing (in the academic sense) and use the vocal instrument...and he was bothered by all of the perceived "bad advice" he was hearing.

My suggestion is that we hear more from him and others who are actually singing as a profession.

I believe he was genuinely trying to be helpful.

Keeping in mind that it's easy to sound condescending in such matters when you know so much more than those you are trying to assist. (Which, really, does not go over very well)

But as for SingSnap...those of us who have been here for a while know...

That HONESTY is NOT the best policy and will only get you either booted from the site for being a jerk or ostracized by those who have come to dislike you.

Those who come here love to sing. But, don't necessarily know how and really just want to enjoy themselves and hear about how wonderful they perform.

Yes...Lie to me. I can take it.

But, when someone asks for singing advice...typically there are "crickets" because who wants to be the bad guy who tells you that you couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. That, as a singer, you are totally hopeless.

No one.

So...let us continue to lie to each other.

After all, that's what we pay for...

sabathielLEVEL 41

Edited reply by sabathiel

Lying to another person is one thing if it is a white lie. Insulting someone's intelligence because you think you see "I am stupid" written all over that other person's forehead is a completely different thing.

Which turnip truck do you think I fell from? LOL

Chenquieh!

ClarelolaLEVEL 61

Reply by ClarelolaGOLD

ZZ-Ed I agree heartily with everything in your last message. Don't worry - be happy! Sing here for fun and go elsewhere to try to "make it" if you wish. Unflagging...

Have a super day all!

sabathielLEVEL 41

Edited reply by sabathiel

Sing here for fun and go elsewhere to try to "make it" if you wish. Clarelola

Why does it have to be one or the other case? Many who sing here do it more than just for fun and that is why there are contests held regularly on Singsnap and oh boy I know how seriously they take those contests. LOL Often you hear tantrums and spats thrown because they didn't get the results they wanted and accuses the judges of all sorts of biases and incompetence. While some accusations are probably justified many fail to accept that music can be very subjective and in the event that there are many singing well on the same standard picking a winner can very much depend on the musical taste and preference of the judges (or how well you know the judges too).

Also people who go "elsewhere" don't necessarily do it because they want to make it or wish for success.....the best on Youtube....most of them do not make it in the music business either....only a handful do. Success in music is like Russian roulette......you'll never know where you are gonna be discovered. It could be Youtube, it could be at open mic, it could be at a karaoke bar....hell, it could even be here on Singsnap. You'll never know who is watching and think they could make decent bucks from your talent. Plus also if you think those who are serious about their singing do not do it for fun also then you are mistaken. One of the reasons why the greats are great at what they are doing is because they passionately love what they do......far more than the average singer....and part of loving what they do means working hard to improve and get better at their craft. That is what love is....it is active not passive.....it is a verb not just a noun.....you do things to show your love. When you do it good or correctly you will have a lot more fun. I know this from experience.

Look at this guy for example......he posts regularly on Youtube and he doesn't care what the world thinks of his singing. He even has 6 subscribers.

Dinalydia

Edited reply by DinalydiaGOLD

Sing here for fun and go elsewhere to try to "make it" if you wish. Clarelola

Why does it have to be one or the other case? Many who sing here do it more than just for fun...sabathiel

sabathiel, I agree! I hear this "one or the other" thing all the time.

There's a huge space between the average Snapper who is here for fun, socializing and maybe an emotional outlet, and at the other extreme, someone with ambitions to enter a televised audition and make it in the music business, or become a world-class vocalist.

What IS this in-between? Creative ideals that go beyond goofing around or trading "Loved my listen" comments. Someone whose artistic reach might even exceed their grasp. Who WANTS to sing and entertain the best they possibly can.
That would be me, for instance.

Finding pleasure in improving singing/performing skills -- creating something distinctive and original. And sharing with others who also enjoy this.

And it isn't putting down people who are here "just for fun" to go further and try expanding the potential of the SS format.
Is it?

BobAmodeoLEVEL 41

Reply by BobAmodeoGOLD

"That's when your heartaches begin"
Elvis Presley
BobAmodeo "Many Blessings and Love to all my SingSnap Family and Friends"
http://www.singsnap.com/karaoke/r/b68ba3ced

tfsonLEVEL 66

Reply by tfson

Note: I said Dylan is not a "singer" but he was, in fact, a great song writer. BUT...I also believe that at one point, he (along with Picasso and many others before him), started believing his own press and began thinking that he could throw feces on the wall and call it art.
ZZ-Ed

Ed, good example of how people can get huge heads and go off the rails because of unreliable advice or critique. A fine line exists between what a person believes and what is actually fact at times. It is a human condition for the ages. Asking for a professional opinion or advice from online acquaintances are better left to those qualified to do so. A smart person would not go to a lumberjack for lessons on how to perform a heart transplant.

VitaminDeeLEVEL 97

Edited reply by VitaminDeePATRON +2

Not going to name and shame or look for an argument but OMG been scrolling through some of the “post me your song and I’ll tell you if your bad or not” to then visit this “experts” channel and hear that they sound like a dying cat... (yet offer “advice”)

Opinion is one thing - advice is another...

Do yourself a favour SING because you want to sing and if you REALLY want help or advice seek advice from professionals/actual singers within the industry or a singing tutor. SOME of the advice I’ve read is terrible and WILL NOT help you. One wrote to “Force the note from your throat” I can tell you that is NOT a good thing to do... all notes should be supported from your diaphragm. I am a working singer within the current industry and I STILL wouldn’t feel comfortable setting up a group “x factor audition” style critique board. Lol... if you want an general opinion from people GO FOR IT... but seek ADVICE from the right ones.

Just sing because you love singing and remember just because one person may tell you your singing is bad - doesn’t mean they’re right. ESPECIALLY when they’re worse than you. Jay x xJustjaydance

You said what I was thinking. I have seen some vocally dangerous, awful and awkward advice given on these threads over the years. By folks using some harmful singing techniques.

And I have seen the sprits of those asking- crushed